Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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ME4ME
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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A very late chassis/tub sign-off might put a teams time plan at risk since everything is build around it. Obviously teams are trying to reduce weight, as already known. The un-raced new 2022 Red Bull tub was apperently 3kg lighter according to rumors/speculation. But what further complicates the 2023 tub are the increased head protection crash test requirements. The implication surely being a lot of extra mass high off the ground. It's basically in the worst possible place (altough maybe not with regards to where along the vehicles lenght it's placed).

So I can imagine that teams want to go the extra mile to optimize that area. Im not sure about the methodolgy but i'd imagine after finite element analysis they might build several rear-upper-portions of the tub and physically test it in-house before committing to building an entire tub.

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continuum16
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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f1316 wrote:
31 Dec 2022, 21:54
Thanks both for the above - great to finally have a thread for this.

What do we think about wheelbases for this year? I suppose it’s a general question for all cars but also specifically for the Ferrari.

I wondered aloud last year if wheelbases might shrink vs the prior era in order to claw back some slow corner performance (the Achilles heel of these new regs) while the high speed downforce would probably rely less on a long car to generate downforce (since so much of that is underfloor). That didn’t seem to be the case for anyone other than Alfa Romeo - and you could argue that having a shorter car didn’t necessarily enhance their slow corner performance (albeit it’s hard to extrapolate one thing from another) - but I believe I read elsewhere that Mercedes might be losing some wheelbase length this year.

From the above rumours, while I did note that the sidepods will reduce in length, that seemed to be to enhance the coke bottle, not an indication of overall length. So my read is that this evolution wouldn’t be likely to do anything dramatically different in terms of wheelbase (and I believe there’s also now a max length they can’t exceed - so folks aren’t able to go the other way and continue to increase length), but curious if anyone has thoughts.
I don’t think we will see anything substantial regarding wheelbases compared to 2022. The primary advantage in the shorter car would be to decrease weight, something Alfa noted (hence why they were the only team at the original limit). Their slow corner performance was all over the place, though.

I would imagine that any change to wheelbase would be a pure weight or weight distribution issue rather than aerodynamic, since a longer car still would give a larger aero platform and hence probably be more attractive.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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Vanja #66
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
11 Jan 2023, 03:22
Have you had a change to mess about with something like this on your old CFD model or will you wait for the launch? What is the effect? Drag reduction?
No, I don't think I will have a chance to do that again this year. The effect should be roughly the same base (form) drag, with added benefit of better suction out of the outlet (because of RW suction zone) and addition of small amount of downforce based on what I've seen from RB18 sidepod simulation:

Image

Blackout wrote:
11 Jan 2023, 07:41
So will the cannon vent replace the shark gills?
It's reported gills will be smaller in width I think, so they will still be there. If this cannon vent is true, I don't expect it will be as wide as RB vent.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Kalsi
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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Screenshotted from Genesys sponsor stickering official ferrari video
https://ibb.co/556TxDR
https://ibb.co/7xD0k8x

Red color and cockpit shape looks different from f1-75.
Sidepod cooling vents shape also seem different...
Could this be the new car?

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F1NAC
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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It's F175

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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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Kalsi wrote:
13 Jan 2023, 11:29
Screenshotted from Genesys sponsor stickering official ferrari video
https://ibb.co/556TxDR
https://ibb.co/7xD0k8x

Red color and cockpit shape looks different from f1-75.
Sidepod cooling vents shape also seem different...
Could this be the new car?
Comparing it to images of the F1-75, it has to be said that the mirror mounts are obviously different to the launch spec. On the launch-spec F1-75, they emerged diagonally from the point at which the side impact structure is fitted to the chassis where in the screenshots you posted, they appear to be mounted very close to the edge of the cockpit. So one might think this is the project 675. However, the screenshots you posted very likely show the exact same mirror mounts the team introduced later that year. It is of course possible that they will launch the project 675 with F1-75's mirror mounts.
Tis much more likely that this is the F1-75 and they just did a thing for the sponsor.
No, Kimi, no. You will not have the drink.

Andi76
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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Some more rumours about the new Ferrari on https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... 3330078125

They say (translated with Deep L):

"On the fact that we will not see a conformation of the Ferrari bellies quite altered we all agree. Nevertheless, in this very portion of the car, the Prancing Horse engineers have decided to invest time and money to try to recover aerodynamic load at the rear.

During the past world championship, our editorial staff mentioned one fact several times: the F1-75 had a rather advanced center of pressure. A factor that made it very competitive at some tracks such as Silverstone, a circuit where possessing a very good grip at the front is essential to obtain good chronometric results. While at other tracks, this characteristic created quite a few headaches at the rear. At low speeds, in fact, the car behaved very well. However, when the km/h increased, the lack of load became infinging.

Precisely for this simple reason, the new aerodynamic look of the Ferrari 675 includes bellies that are more tapered toward the rear, while retaining the "scoops" at the top. The goal is to increase the flow of air flowing above the diffuser.

To this measure must be added the modification regarding the initial area of the sidepods, where we will be able to observe an increased "hollowing" capable of channeling a higher air flow towards the rear, similar to what Red Bull did last year. To accomplish such an operation, the Italian engineers made some changes to the internal distribution of the elements, changes that could not be put in the pipeline during last season.

Then there is a crucial factor that Ferrari has duly attended to, identified as one of the main problems of the 2022 edition red car: excessive drag, an element that has too often inhibited the engineers in finding the correct set up. In an effort to reduce drag, efforts have been made to clean up the flows surrounding the side pods. In this regard, it should be noted that the bulky sidepods that characterized the F1-75 are not the major cause of the drag generated by the car. On the contrary, wider sidepods can help ward off turbulence generated by the front wheels.

But then why couldn't the Maranello car produce an adequate aerodynamic penetration coefficient? The simplest explanation is to associate the greater drag with less effective wake management with regard to the front wheels, which was certainly better than the W13, but inferior when compared to that generated by the RB18.

From such a context we can extrapolate a reasoned consequence, which prompted the engineers in red to rectify the lower area where the "old" bargeboards were positioned, to be clear. The purpose is to increase the outwash effect, a neuralgic theme in today's Formula One cars.

F1. Ferrari 675: transmission and rear suspension

The current regulatory body, related to the 2023 season, imposes an increase in the minimum height of the bottom from the ground by 15mm in the outermost portion. While the modification affecting the diffuser is on the 10mm. This measure imposes a different bottom slide, substantially further from the reference plane (asphalt).

The directive acting on the technical regulations has primarily produced a redesign of the gearbox, a mechanical element that resides in that very area of the single-seater. Redesign that obviously will not affect Ferrari alone, but rather several teams that make up the lot.

The scenario just described has forced the men of the historic Modenese stable to make the diffuser of the new car work with an increased ground clearance. As we can easily imagine the pitfalls in this regard have been several. Nevertheless, according to information gleaned by Formula One Technical Analysis, the changes put in place after redesigning part of the bottom have largely satisfied the engineers.

Considering the new 2023 ground clearance heights, the red car specialists, evaluating the Red Bull set-up with extreme relief, managed to modify it to adapt that philosophy and make it factual on their single-seater. All to foil a "depressive spike" and minimize the tedious and infamous porpoising effect, a context that should ensure a wider set-up range.

As for the suspension system at the rear, although again there will be no upheaval to take advantage of all the know-how "collected" during the 2022 world championship, some targeted changes will make a presence. We are talking about a correction related to the kinematics and in particular the reciprocal position between the center of mass and center of roll, an indispensable factor for the administration of the compounds.

The engineers' desire is to equip the 675 project with a wider suspension tuning window, capable of better adapting the car toward tire management, a focal point that too frequently has limited the F1-75's race pace in no small measure. An area on which, Ferrari, thinks it can achieve a marked step forward.

F1. Ferrari 675 power unit: reliability and increased power.

Depowering a power unit in progress to give the car proper reliability is a real technical defeat. The headache that actually adversely affected performance concerned the emission peak recorded inside the pre-chamber, capable of producing great technical and mechanical stresses.

Through the regulatory clause granted by the federation, Ferrari worked on the ignition delay to smooth out the heat curve produced. The goal was achieved by intervening on the pulverization of the mixture to obtain a more turbulent jet inside the chamber.

The system called TJI (Turbulent Jet Ignition), as anticipated in the Dec. 1 write-up usable at this link, has been further refined by exponentially raising the turbulent capacity of the power unit.

In addition to the "correction" that actually promotes self-ignition at various points in the combustion chamber, a factor that increases the thrust on the plunger by eliminating the problems suffered, the engineers worked on the engine architecture. The intervention extrapolated an additional handful of horsepower that, added to the "unexpended" horsepower in 2022 to ensure reliability, will give the Ferrari 675 a significant boost.

F1. Ferrari 675: improved weight and handling
Although at first glance the next work of Italian mechanical engineering will not seem so dissimilar from the previous car, in writing we have nonetheless put under the magnifying glass the new features that will be offered since the pre-season tests in Bahrain, set for February 23/24/45. In this respect, it is worth noting the great refinement work done on the single-seater's components.

Aware of the importance of being able to best administer the incidence of kilograms on a Formula One car, the team's technical department has made great efforts by implementing a "slimming plan" on the 675. In balancing the car, in fact, the value of ballast can be quite effective, which, placed in strategic points, will be able to favor the balance of the car by facilitating handling for the drivers."

I don't know how valid their informations are and where they get their informations from. We will only see that when the car is finally presented. Personally i doubt that all of this information is correct, but most of them sound reasonable.

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Vanja #66
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Andi76 wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 08:40
***
In an effort to reduce drag, efforts have been made to clean up the flows surrounding the side pods. In this regard, it should be noted that the bulky sidepods that characterized the F1-75 are not the major cause of the drag generated by the car. On the contrary, wider sidepods can help ward off turbulence generated by the front wheels.

But then why couldn't the Maranello car produce an adequate aerodynamic penetration coefficient? The simplest explanation is to associate the greater drag with less effective wake management with regard to the front wheels, which was certainly better than the W13, but inferior when compared to that generated by the RB18.

From such a context we can extrapolate a reasoned consequence, which prompted the engineers in red to rectify the lower area where the "old" bargeboards were positioned, to be clear. The purpose is to increase the outwash effect, a neuralgic theme in today's Formula One cars.

***
Not sure I agree with this section, others seem ok. Bellow the inlets sidepods were really blunt and clearly induced outwashing. They certainly provided better front wheel wake outwash than RB18, which provided none of it with sidepods, only with floor boards.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Venturiation
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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The current regulatory body, related to the 2023 season, imposes an increase in the minimum height of the bottom from the ground by 15mm in the outermost portion. While the modification affecting the diffuser is on the 10mm. This measure imposes a different bottom slide, substantially further from the reference plane (asphalt).

The directive acting on the technical regulations has primarily produced a redesign of the gearbox, a mechanical element that resides in that very area of the single-seater. Redesign that obviously will not affect Ferrari alone, but rather several teams that make up the lot.


Wich teams will be affected the most by the gearbox redesign?
Redbull won’t have to do it?

FDD
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 11:03
Andi76 wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 08:40
***
In an effort to reduce drag, efforts have been made to clean up the flows surrounding the side pods. In this regard, it should be noted that the bulky sidepods that characterized the F1-75 are not the major cause of the drag generated by the car. On the contrary, wider sidepods can help ward off turbulence generated by the front wheels.

But then why couldn't the Maranello car produce an adequate aerodynamic penetration coefficient? The simplest explanation is to associate the greater drag with less effective wake management with regard to the front wheels, which was certainly better than the W13, but inferior when compared to that generated by the RB18.

From such a context we can extrapolate a reasoned consequence, which prompted the engineers in red to rectify the lower area where the "old" bargeboards were positioned, to be clear. The purpose is to increase the outwash effect, a neuralgic theme in today's Formula One cars.

***
Not sure I agree with this section, others seem ok. Bellow the inlets sidepods were really blunt and clearly induced outwashing. They certainly provided better front wheel wake outwash than RB18, which provided none of it with sidepods, only with floor boards.
I think that their drag problem is exactly in that strong outwash which the car produce with the lower front part of the sidepod.

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Vanja #66
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To an extent yes, not all of it. It was rumoured a few days ago that Ferrari engineers believe RB used flexy wings for drag reduction at speed better than Ferrari, this makes sense as well. The biggest difference after Baku was due to reduced engine power.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

matteosc
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 21:27
To an extent yes, not all of it. It was rumoured a few days ago that Ferrari engineers believe RB used flexy wings for drag reduction at speed better than Ferrari, this makes sense as well. The biggest difference after Baku was due to reduced engine power.
I think the strong outwash of Ferrari increased the drag, even if I am not sure of how much. A better job from RB in flexible wing definitely helped them, but it would show up at high speed even more at DRS closed.
It seems however that most of the speed advantage (for Red Bull) was at DRS open. What does this imply? It could be a better DRS mechanism, but I do not think that it would be that different. Or it could be that Red Bull was able to create a better/stronger interaction between rear wing and diffuser/floor, so that when the DRS opened there was a drag reduction from other parts of the car. What are your thoughts on this?

FDD
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 21:27
To an extent yes, not all of it. It was rumoured a few days ago that Ferrari engineers believe RB used flexy wings for drag reduction at speed better than Ferrari, this makes sense as well. The biggest difference after Baku was due to reduced engine power.
Right, I absolutely forget on these 2 inputs.

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FDD
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Re: Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

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matteosc wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 22:26
Vanja #66 wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 21:27
To an extent yes, not all of it. It was rumoured a few days ago that Ferrari engineers believe RB used flexy wings for drag reduction at speed better than Ferrari, this makes sense as well. The biggest difference after Baku was due to reduced engine power.
I think the strong outwash of Ferrari increased the drag, even if I am not sure of how much. A better job from RB in flexible wing definitely helped them, but it would show up at high speed even more at DRS closed.
It seems however that most of the speed advantage (for Red Bull) was at DRS open. What does this imply? It could be a better DRS mechanism, but I do not think that it would be that different. Or it could be that Red Bull was able to create a better/stronger interaction between rear wing and diffuser/floor, so that when the DRS opened there was a drag reduction from other parts of the car. What are your thoughts on this?
In the begging yes that was the case (better DRS effect), but later when Ferrari developed the rear wing this was reduced so the rest was due to flexible wings and reducing the engine power.
My opinion.

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chrisc90
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Is there any evidence of the RB flexi wing at all? Or is it just speculation. Normally if something flexing and getting that much advantage....people pick up on it, and it gets analysed.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.