Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Stu
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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organic wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 13:41


Quite possible that this is old pics/footage of the W13 monocoque? Seems very similar and surely they wouldn't be leaking W14 info at this point
…and will likely be the basis of the ‘23 livery/car launch?
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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organic wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 13:41


Quite possible that this is old pics/footage of the W13 monocoque? Seems very similar and surely they wouldn't be leaking W14 info at this point
I don't see what harm a "leak" will do. What are other teams going to do, copy it?

Venturiation
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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They showed parts like this last year too

It’s the real W14 and showing this doesn’t give any advantage to the competition

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Has the blue in the livery changed or are my eyes broken?
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FW17
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Mirrors are from last year at least

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Vanja #66
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Painted chassis is W13 on scarbs' photos, two other photos show parts of W14 chassis.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
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Vanja #66
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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There's more in this article

https://www.racefans.net/2023/01/17/mer ... r-in-test/

Biggest indicator yet they kept the zeropods. Won't be long before we see for sure.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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There could be made gains (although small ones) from the PU in 2023 and beyond according to Renault's F1 engine chief Bruno Famin, coming out from the ancillaries &/auxiliaries/packaging sides and last but not least from the energy management due to allowance o have only one software version per year now :

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... /10421545/

But from my point of view what is really interesting is their approach to performance rather than reliability in these 3 years of frozen development, knowing they are allowed to make updates for reliability reasons (something that Ferrari and Honda are doing successfully in the meantime), I quote:

"The tactic, therefore, was to throw everything at bringing performance from the off: even if it meant that things were not as reliable initially as they needed to be.

While that risked opening the door to the kind of trouble that Alpine would go on to endure, it was always a case of short-term pain for long-term gain.

The pay-off would come later as, when the reliability fixes were in place, the end product would be much better overall than a super-safe lower spec initial launch design."
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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Stu wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 14:59
organic wrote:
16 Jan 2023, 13:41


Quite possible that this is old pics/footage of the W13 monocoque? Seems very similar and surely they wouldn't be leaking W14 info at this point
…and will likely be the basis of the ‘23 livery/car launch?

The upper right picture was taken on 17th November last year at Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, when they prepared RUS`s car on Thursday afternoon:


Image
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Sieper
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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It is just speculation for now, so I’ll chime in with mine. I think they will keep the zero pod idea, it does offer the highest total downforce. Too much even last year (drag). We saw them be competitive at altitude towards season end, when the drag penalty wasn’t as severe. Next years aero changes (higher floor sides, deeper tunnel) in total cost downforce, and are said to be better for really low ran cars. So when all lose a bit of DF mercs very high DF and low ran concept may be the best fit.
Last edited by Sieper on 17 Jan 2023, 22:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Too much even last year (drag).
Is it fair to say that downforce always creates drag, but drag is not always an indicator of downforce? Many say that those big, fat rear tires create a lot of drag in Mercedes' case.
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Sieper wrote:
17 Jan 2023, 20:58
It is just speculation for now, so I’ll chime in with mine. I think they will keep the zero pod idea, it does offer the highest total downforce. Too much even last year (drag). We saw them be competitive at altitude towards season end, when the drag penalty wasn’t as severe. Next years aero changes (higher floor sides, deeper tunnel) in total cost downforce, and are said to be better for really low ran cars. So when all lose a bit of DF mercs very high DF and low ran concept may be the best fit.
Winning is about building a car that's in the right window, relative to the tracks which are being raced on.

In many cases, Mercedes did not have the highest amount of downforce. We saw this at many circuits. They would run the car low and bounce. This is not a practical or realizable configuration so the downforce being generated is entirely fictional. Anyone can build a car that bounces.

The magic is building one that does not bounce, while costing yourself as little speed as possible. This is what Ferrari and Red Bull mastered to varying degrees much better than Mercedes.
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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wogx wrote:
17 Jan 2023, 22:03
Too much even last year (drag).
Is it fair to say that downforce always creates drag, but drag is not always an indicator of downforce? Many say that those big, fat rear tires create a lot of drag in Mercedes' case.
I don't know where things gets missed. The very reason why ground effect has been brought back, is to cut the drag that comes from aero surfaces. As floor downforce doesn't produce aerodynamic drag, any more than the floors of the past, just for being physical bodies moving through high speed air, they are way more efficient means to produce downforce. Mercedes was unable produce as much downforce from the floor as RB and Ferrari, which forced them to run the car closer to the ground, causing bouncing and a lot of their downforce came from larger rear wing. Those were the primary problems of Mercedes. If they have to get rid of drag, they must find better floor design to enhance the downforce produced by ground effect and then cut down rear wing dependency. It's a myth they had more downforce hence drag than other two. It's their weaker floor and stronger rear wing.

Andi76
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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This article suggests Mercedes will go away from the "Zeropod"-Philosophy.

Clearly, the nascent creature whose authorship will once again be attributed to Mike Elliott will see modifications in other areas as well. The aerodynamic guise so peculiar could undergo a remodeling process devoted to a compromise between the "Zero pod" concept and the solutions adopted by the other stables. A "hybrid" that envisages decidedly wider bellies than those observed during the last championship as per the graphic comparison above.

"The target that the aerodynamicists of the Anglo-German franchise are chasing is to have bulkier bellies to better manage, by controlling it, the turbulent flow coming from the front wheels. The aim is to keep it at a proper distance from the car body to prevent it from adversely affecting the aerodynamics of the rear end."

Full article:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... e-gap.html
jordanb wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 04:41
wogx wrote:
17 Jan 2023, 22:03
Too much even last year (drag).
Is it fair to say that downforce always creates drag, but drag is not always an indicator of downforce? Many say that those big, fat rear tires create a lot of drag in Mercedes' case.
I don't know where things gets missed. The very reason why ground effect has been brought back, is to cut the drag that comes from aero surfaces. As floor downforce doesn't produce aerodynamic drag, any more than the floors of the past, just for being physical bodies moving through high speed air, they are way more efficient means to produce downforce. Mercedes was unable produce as much downforce from the floor as RB and Ferrari, which forced them to run the car closer to the ground, causing bouncing and a lot of their downforce came from larger rear wing. Those were the primary problems of Mercedes. If they have to get rid of drag, they must find better floor design to enhance the downforce produced by ground effect and then cut down rear wing dependency. It's a myth they had more downforce hence drag than other two. It's their weaker floor and stronger rear wing.


I've always found this "more drag means more downforce" argument a bit funny, to be honest. If Mercedes had so much more downforce than Ferrari or Red Bull, at least on parts of the tracks where porpoising wasn't a big problem at the beginning of the season, this advantage should have been recognized at least from time to time. But this was not the case at all. So I agree with you that this was a fairy tale and Mercedes was behind Ferrari and Red Bull in terms of floor. Also I think that the Front Wheel Wake and Tire Squirt Management was one of the big weaknesses of the W013, which is also related to the Zeropod concept. I also don't really see the possibility of getting a similarly good handle on that with this concept without continuing to have the disadvantage of too much drag, which was also partly caused by it in my opinion.
Last edited by Andi76 on 18 Jan 2023, 08:38, edited 2 times in total.