Williams/Webber - Top end speed

F1JagFan · Post 10 May 2005, 06:16

I have studied the speed trap results of the last three races - across all practice sessions, qualifying, and the race and Webber is on average one of the slowest re. top end speed, and yet on average finishes in the top ten or better for every session. Why? I have an idea that it may be because the car is average and putting on more wing increases handling performace (and slows the car). If this is the case, why, at Barcelona at least, were the 2 Minardi's in the top ten for top end speed for each sessions?

jaslfc · Post 10 May 2005, 06:31

could be because of the gear ratio's?? no idea just a suggestion.. but speaking of williams.. i think they have one of the worst starts (acceleration) in formula 1 .. ive noticed that with williams this year... but maybe it is webber. last year in qualifyin he was superb but alway lost grid positions. Is it the eletronic programs or is it webber is too cautious in his starts..

West · Post 10 May 2005, 08:11

Steve Matchett says they don't run that much wing for the main straight; that's why they're faster than everybody else. He emphasizes a slingshot down that straight so its better to have more downforce for that final corner. It will screw up the aero of the guy behind u a little.

wrk · Post 10 May 2005, 13:55

yep noticed the same thing, around 10km off the pace through the speed trap
but through each sector only a tenth slower and in some quicker....
sounds like gearing to me,cause the thing can surely go around corners quick enough.....

wayne.

Stuart30 · Post 11 May 2005, 17:58

One thing about the minardi's that has to be taken into consideration is that they don't handle worth a crap because they have lousy downforce. The reason they are so fast through the speed trap is because they have no downforce which reduces their drag=faster speeds. The Williams may be slower, because they have more drag to increase their downforce as opposed to other teams. In other words Mclaren can run the same amount of downforce with less drag than Williams, because of better overall aero package.

dcdabest · Post 12 May 2005, 10:08

Most of you have probably seen it already, but a recent-ish F1Racing magazine article showed the estimated rpms of the teams. bmw came out on top of course which says a lot about williams lack of downforce. McLaren had (pre-spain) the weakest engine! so once they get that sorted th...

Scuderia_Russ · Post 12 May 2005, 10:53

I saw something similar in Autosport with readings taken using the harmonics of the engine note, and their list had Renault at the top, then Toyota, Honda, BMW, Cosworth then Mercedes i think. In an article in todays Autosport it is again confirmed that BMW does not have the power advantage that it used to enjoy between the years '00 - '02/'03

Post 12 May 2005, 12:51

Well for the starts... I don't really think it is Webber but more likely just the Williams car. The team have practiced a lot on starts during the last test session, but it didn't bring too much apparently.

The engine of Mercedes at the moment simply must be a strong engine, you don't get on pole twice with a lowest revving engine of the field. Furthermore it seems to me that Scuderia Russ' list is more accurate.

I also wish to note that at Bahrain the BMW engines were turned down quite a bit as the chassis did not provide enough cooling. It may not be an explanation for all Grand Prix', but maybe for some...

GuestAgain · Post 12 May 2005, 16:37

The engine of Mercedes at the moment simply must be a strong engine, you don't get on pole twice with a lowest revving engine of the field.

Not necessarily the strongest engine but rather the strongest package. I think Ferrari managed many poles last year without necessarilly the strongest engine. Also Williams proved a couple of years ago when they had the strongest engine and still did not manage as many poles or wins as Ferrari.

jaslfc · Post 13 May 2005, 04:46

the bmw engine has always been regarded as the most powerfull/ best engine on the grid. i think it may be the aero package that compromises the true potential of the engine. Any idea's why they just cannot get the car design right? i feel that with their resources they should at least close to the top teams.. they seem to have problem with their race pace. Maybe they need to restructure their technical team. It seems that bmw is losing thier patients and now with the rumour of a potential buyout of sauber williams stand to lose alot!!

dcdabest · Post 13 May 2005, 09:04

Thinking back to 2003, I wonder what exactly it was that triggered their sudden massive performance advantage over the others mid-season? If it was simply a case of ironing out problems we may see it again this year.

West · Post 13 May 2005, 09:24

As far as I know Williams' aerodynamics aren't as good as the rest of the field, and nobody talks about their engines anymore.

Williams had a dope car in 2003... sigh...

johny · Post 13 May 2005, 11:14

williams car is very fast, bmw engine is superb but without a good chassis and aero you can't go anywere, in barcelona they show that could go fast, they qualy 2nd, i think they also need a top class driver, i don't like webber at all. If there aren't ideas they should change some inside the team

Scuderia_Russ · Post 13 May 2005, 13:53

johny wrote: in barcelona they show that could go fast, they qualy 2nd,

Webber was on low fuel and pitted six laps before the next man.

johny wrote: i think they also need a top class driver

Like Jenson Button!

They also need a new engine partner if the latest reports are to be believed.

Alic01 · Post 17 May 2005, 16:12

One of the problems appears to be Sam Michael, i dont think he has that instinct for absolute perfection. Williams dont appear to be cross checking and validating everything they do.

I think that fact that bits are being thrown at the car and certainly last years brake duct fiaso are clasic examples of this.

How many stages of checking are involved in every part before it reaches a car, the TD is ultimately responsible and to spend valuable time, money and effort designing a part which was never in any circumstances legal is a massive problem.

Since Sam started to take over from Patrick we have seen healthy cars retire for overheated brakes, reduced engine power to overcome design issues, the brake duct problems and they have lost their chief aerodynamicist. Unfortunately i think the money men will realise soon enough and send Sam on his merry way.

I believe that Williams are currently suffering from their managerial changes, when it all settles down and people get used to the new way of things they will find their feet again, the resources are their - unfortunately as mentioned by Scuderia Russ the engines may not be.