2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Seems odd you would get a reliability upgrade on fuel.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
10 Feb 2023, 23:00
georgekyr wrote:
10 Feb 2023, 14:03
This is fully in line with what I had said some time ago regarding renewable fuels and the many ways you can tweak them even after they have been homologated.
viewtopic.php?p=1107303#p1107303
You can't tweak the chemistry after homologation.
In my uneducated opinion you can tweak the chemistry within the parameters given by the FIA at any time. And that would allow more aggressive mapping, its a win win.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 00:16
Seems odd you would get a reliability upgrade on fuel.
If it knocks the hell out of the engine and do stuff like wash away the oil film then I could see teams get away with it.
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mendis
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 05:04
chrisc90 wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 00:16
Seems odd you would get a reliability upgrade on fuel.
If it knocks the hell out of the engine and do stuff like wash away the oil film then I could see teams get away with it.
Technical regulations make no mention of any reliability upgrade to fuel. Let's assume there is a section that allows it, which is not apparent. Still, other teams have to agree to the explanation given for the upgrade, that can correlate to past reliability issues. Remember, reliability upgrades need approval from other manufacturers.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 05:18
PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 05:04
chrisc90 wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 00:16
Seems odd you would get a reliability upgrade on fuel.
If it knocks the hell out of the engine and do stuff like wash away the oil film then I could see teams get away with it.
Technical regulations make no mention of any reliability upgrade to fuel. Let's assume there is a section that allows it, which is not apparent. Still, other teams have to agree to the explanation given for the upgrade, that can correlate to past reliability issues. Remember, reliability upgrades need approval from other manufacturers.
Fully agree re-technical regulation where it concerns fuel. It sounds incredilous to suggest that a reliability request change for homolagated fuel formulation will even be pushed forward let alone accepted.
Last edited by Stu on 11 Feb 2023, 10:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Unnecessary comments removed

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It would be easy to make a ‘good’ fuel knock and bore wash though. Simple. A change of a few injection maps and a few extra degrees of timing would make a knock situation.

You could have the ear fuel in the world and shoddy mapping could easily kill a engine through bore wash or knock/detonation.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 12:00
It would be easy to make a ‘good’ fuel knock and bore wash though. Simple. A change of a few injection maps and a few extra degrees of timing would make a knock situation.

You could have the ear fuel in the world and shoddy mapping could easily kill a engine through bore wash or knock/detonation.
FIA will have the maps to discern. And they have fuel tests too.

Unfortunately they might ask the team to revert to lasg years fuel instead of making a new one!
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johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Bore wash at 1.2+ lambda and direct injection !
Really :wink:

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Big Tea
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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They could possibly 'claim' that there was a more efficient or greener way of producing it with this formulation. Or that some of the 'old' components were no longer available or green
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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johnny comelately wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 12:27
Bore wash at 1.2+ lambda and direct injection !
Really :wink:
Yeah, would be so easy to tweak the map for it.

I do wonder how quickly bore wash would occur in a race engine such as a F1 car. I know a bad injector or fuel can quickly cause problems with piston ring lands through supersonic detonation/soundwaves from the direct injection so if the wasnt a optimised burn then it can quickly become bad.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 12:16
chrisc90 wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 12:00
It would be easy to make a ‘good’ fuel knock and bore wash though. Simple. A change of a few injection maps and a few extra degrees of timing would make a knock situation.

You could have the ear fuel in the world and shoddy mapping could easily kill a engine through bore wash or knock/detonation.
FIA will have the maps to discern. And they have fuel tests too.
Ah yes, the brilliant FIA....master fuel detectives :wink:
A lion must kill its prey.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 12:16
chrisc90 wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 12:00
It would be easy to make a ‘good’ fuel knock and bore wash though. Simple. A change of a few injection maps and a few extra degrees of timing would make a knock situation.

You could have the ear fuel in the world and shoddy mapping could easily kill a engine through bore wash or knock/detonation.
FIA will have the maps to discern. And they have fuel tests too.

Unfortunately they might ask the team to revert to lasg years fuel instead of making a new one!
It is last year's homologated fuel composition which was homologated on 1st March 2022 that they will be using this year and till the end of 2025 season.

Venturiation
Venturiation
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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with latest rumors saying the W14 having delay it's gonna be W13 part 2

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It was mentioned in that article that there was a late design change.

It's like we entered a parallel universe where Mercedes is running right up to the wire, and Red Bull have already done their shakedown. Normally it's the other way around.

A late build like this is highly unusual for Mercedes.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Venturiation
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 01:28
It was mentioned in that article that there was a late design change.

It's like we entered a parallel universe where Mercedes is running right up to the wire, and Red Bull have already done their shakedown. Normally it's the other way around.

A late build like this is highly unusual for Mercedes.
could mean a change in concept again after the other one not working