2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 17:30
How reliable is this site or the author which is mentioning that "Mercedes W14: Possible double-digit horsepower gain, though difficult to compare against rival teams"?

https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-w14-si ... d-in-2023/

Now that we know that fuel could not be updated until 2026 and even via reliability reasons it`s hard to conceive that the power increase of some say 10HP could be done only through software/mapping upgrades ...

Maybe this power increase is coming from a new mapping which is now harvesting more energy via MGU-H, or possibly this power boost was coz they were running last year slightly detuned due to porpoising/bouncing inducing effects to ICE both structural integrity and functionality?
This kind of increase can come from mappings.

Remember that Ferrari dropped a lot of power by conservative mappings last season. Mercedes also registered a new crankshaft material late last year to support more power (a claimed reliability upgrade despite no known failures of the component :wink: ).
A lion must kill its prey.

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proteus
22
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 14:35

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 16:52
proteus wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 13:55
chrisc90 wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 13:38


True. It could also be a indicator that they didnt fully understand the design, even so late in the season. A front wing, changes to the floor and rear wing endplates they brought to Austin (https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ed-austin/) is quite a big set of upgrades to be bringing with 4 races to go. You would have thought that time and money would have been better off developing parts/floor designs for 2023.

Put it this way, the budget cap for 2022 will be watched closely by others given upgrade packages brought etc.
Everything they brought in 2022 is very relevant to 2023. What is even better for them is that they were able to run it on the track. Their main problem was that they got the car wrong at the start, but from the moment they knew they cant compete for championship they shifted all of their focus into rectifying problems of their car and this was an investement for 2023. I do wonder what went so wrong to make them being late though? Have they lost too many capable minds and hands in the last few seasons to other teams? All will be clear in first few races i suppose.
You found out that your concept is wrong and doesn't work. Your car is not fast. You are trying to find out what is wrong but cannot find, at least until the last part of season.
You have 2 teams.
One works for current car, they are in mentioned situation.
Second works for next year's car. So work on what? This is very very bad situation.
You rectify the problem, so you dont have any problems in the next season when you carry over. Thats how i would do it. They managed to turn their car into a winner at the end of the season. The only reason i cant think of why they would have delays is that they decided to make a completely new car alltogether. We will see it in testing.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

f1jcw
f1jcw
17
Joined: 21 Feb 2019, 21:15

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 18:05
atanatizante wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 17:30
How reliable is this site or the author which is mentioning that "Mercedes W14: Possible double-digit horsepower gain, though difficult to compare against rival teams"?

https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-w14-si ... d-in-2023/

Now that we know that fuel could not be updated until 2026 and even via reliability reasons it`s hard to conceive that the power increase of some say 10HP could be done only through software/mapping upgrades ...

Maybe this power increase is coming from a new mapping which is now harvesting more energy via MGU-H, or possibly this power boost was coz they were running last year slightly detuned due to porpoising/bouncing inducing effects to ICE both structural integrity and functionality?
This kind of increase can come from mappings.

Remember that Ferrari dropped a lot of power by conservative mappings last season. Mercedes also registered a new crankshaft material late last year to support more power (a claimed reliability upgrade despite no known failures of the component :wink: ).
There is two different ways of dealing with reliability

1. Running it near full power till it goes boom
2. Dialing the power down so it come complete a run without going boom

Are you saying only 1 should be allowed reliability updates.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
50
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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How much power a formula one engine will be able to gain this season will depend mostly on how much power it had to suppress the season before when the engines where homologated and developments frozen, due to reliability problems.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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f1jcw wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 18:21
AR3-GP wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 18:05
atanatizante wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 17:30
How reliable is this site or the author which is mentioning that "Mercedes W14: Possible double-digit horsepower gain, though difficult to compare against rival teams"?

https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-w14-si ... d-in-2023/

Now that we know that fuel could not be updated until 2026 and even via reliability reasons it`s hard to conceive that the power increase of some say 10HP could be done only through software/mapping upgrades ...

Maybe this power increase is coming from a new mapping which is now harvesting more energy via MGU-H, or possibly this power boost was coz they were running last year slightly detuned due to porpoising/bouncing inducing effects to ICE both structural integrity and functionality?
This kind of increase can come from mappings.

Remember that Ferrari dropped a lot of power by conservative mappings last season. Mercedes also registered a new crankshaft material late last year to support more power (a claimed reliability upgrade despite no known failures of the component :wink: ).
There is two different ways of dealing with reliability

1. Running it near full power till it goes boom
2. Dialing the power down so it come complete a run without going boom

Are you saying only 1 should be allowed reliability updates.
No I'm not saying that. I'm just saying anyone can make an argument that they were "dialing down the power" and it could be quite dubious. This is F1 we are talking about.
A lion must kill its prey.

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Are lubricants and cooling systems frozen as well?
For Sure!!

Vaexa
Vaexa
6
Joined: 24 Jun 2021, 18:58

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 21:31
Are lubricants and cooling systems frozen as well?
Lubricants yes, cooling systems are a lot more complicated and I haven't read the engine homologation regulations that closely in a while. I think most of the cooling auxiliaries (including intercooler) fall outside the freeze.

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Okay. Some potential for power gains can be found in cooling systems. Improved heat rejection can allow teams to push the PU more in terms of mapping. More so on the electrical side as well.
For Sure!!

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
50
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 18:39
f1jcw wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 18:21
AR3-GP wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 18:05


This kind of increase can come from mappings.

Remember that Ferrari dropped a lot of power by conservative mappings last season. Mercedes also registered a new crankshaft material late last year to support more power (a claimed reliability upgrade despite no known failures of the component :wink: ).
There is two different ways of dealing with reliability

1. Running it near full power till it goes boom
2. Dialing the power down so it come complete a run without going boom

Are you saying only 1 should be allowed reliability updates.
No I'm not saying that. I'm just saying anyone can make an argument that they were "dialing down the power" and it could be quite dubious. This is F1 we are talking about.
Yes correct. 'anyone can make an argument' like the one made before it. Not only that, but it is much easier done because the prove that it was actually 'done' (real time) is behind us now. What exposes all this as just 'wishful thinking speculations is the effort at pushing out different real technical reliability problems of the parts involved, one after the other when the first doesn't make much of a load sound. first it was because of the car jumping like a wild bronco, than it was crankshaft material weaknesses, after that it was gains by less friction, and the last one up to now was a change of the already homologated fuel formulation with software improvements thrown in for good measure.

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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Aren't they the only team having their reserve driver at the launch?
Just confirms Mick is only a PR stunt, they didn't get him because of his driving skills

DGP123
DGP123
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Joined: 15 Sep 2022, 17:31

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Danny Ric was at RB’s

Gone back to black, looks sexy. Great looking car.

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chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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“Eventually be competitive enough”
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

f1rules
f1rules
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Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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honestly one of the prettiest cars ive ever seen, wow
Image

ali623
ali623
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Joined: 27 Jan 2022, 16:27

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Holm86 wrote:
15 Feb 2023, 11:23
Aren't they the only team having their reserve driver at the launch?
Just confirms Mick is only a PR stunt, they didn't get him because of his driving skills
Red Bull, Ferrari and Aston Martin did

Henri
Henri
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Joined: 14 Jan 2022, 10:58

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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f1rules wrote:
15 Feb 2023, 11:36
honestly one of the prettiest cars ive ever seen, wow
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo_oiTEX0AA ... =4096x4096
Gorgeous spectacular