2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

I fully expect Honda have made power improvements, just like every other manufacturer. The difference is that HRC/Honda is very humble by nature. Some other manufacturers cannot wait to let a journalist know they are so "clever", or have more power (Ferrari, Mercedes) but it's because they are not so humble, everyone must hear their "greatness" before they've even turned a lap.

[SiLo]

I fully expect Honda have made power improvements, just like every other manufacturer. The difference is that HRC/Honda is very humble by nature. Some other manufacturers cannot wait to let a journalist know they are so "clever", or have more power (Ferrari, Mercedes) but it's because they are not so humble, everyone must hear their "greatness" before they've even turned a lap.

What am I reading hahaha

[AR3-GP]

I fully expect Honda have made power improvements, just like every other manufacturer. The difference is that HRC/Honda is very humble by nature. Some other manufacturers cannot wait to let a journalist know they are so "clever", or have more power (Ferrari, Mercedes) but it's because they are not so humble, everyone must hear their "greatness" before they've even turned a lap.

What am I reading hahaha

There have been several "press leaks" about significant hp improvements from Mercedes and Ferrari. You will almost never hear the same when discussing Honda. That is Honda's culture lately. Under promise, over deliver.

[Cs98]

I fully expect Honda have made power improvements, just like every other manufacturer. The difference is that HRC/Honda is very humble by nature. Some other manufacturers cannot wait to let a journalist know they are so "clever", or have more power (Ferrari, Mercedes) but it's because they are not so humble, everyone must hear their "greatness" before they've even turned a lap.

What am I reading hahaha

Apparently not enough....

There have been several "press leaks" about significant hp improvements from Mercedes and Ferrari. You will almost never hear the same when discussing Honda. The only time we learn Honda improved their engine is when their do there end of season company days.

Don't really think this is about Merc and Ferrari bragging, more like them being covered more closely by western media outlets. Western journalists don't have a very good idea of the developments being done over in Japan, so they can't write about it. Some people assume the media silence must mean there is no development going in, that is of course foolish.

[AR3-GP]

What am I reading hahaha

Apparently not enough....

There have been several "press leaks" about significant hp improvements from Mercedes and Ferrari. You will almost never hear the same when discussing Honda. The only time we learn Honda improved their engine is when their do there end of season company days.

Don't really think this is about Merc and Ferrari bragging, more like them being covered more closely by western media outlets. Western journalists don't have a very good idea of the developments being done over in Japan, so they can't write about it. Some people assume the media silence must mean there is no development going in, that is of course foolish.

There are 1 or 2 japanese outlets that I keep up with that cover Honda material as much as they can. HRC just doesn't have a habit of "leaking" rumors to their national press. The japanese are crazy about F1. There is a big following there as well. The only time we learn something is after a Honda corporate event when the season ended or when Wazari post here at the ERS system has been upgraded.

[etusch]

I don't believe that anyone gained power. Ferrari and Renault may use the power they could not use because of their bad reliability. But I don't think they have more than what we saw past season. I am sure they will be happy if they have exactly same number of 22 engine without reliability concern. Mercedes, I think they are worst with E10. But were good with reliability. So if they wanted to reliability update, for sure it is for performance. Fia should not have allow them.
After so many years with these engine formula, even if engines were not freezed, I think there is no room for 10+hp gain. Maybe new fuel would be an exception for this.
Maybe there can be some development what they can use during racing by courage of a season knowledge about engine wear. I would say software optimization or ers optimization but after so many years, I don't know if there is a room for development there.

[Cs98]

Apparently not enough....

There have been several "press leaks" about significant hp improvements from Mercedes and Ferrari. You will almost never hear the same when discussing Honda. The only time we learn Honda improved their engine is when their do there end of season company days.

Don't really think this is about Merc and Ferrari bragging, more like them being covered more closely by western media outlets. Western journalists don't have a very good idea of the developments being done over in Japan, so they can't write about it. Some people assume the media silence must mean there is no development going in, that is of course foolish.

There are 1 or 2 japanese outlets that I keep up with that cover Honda material as much as they can. HRC just doesn't have a habit of "leaking" rumors to their national press. The japanese are crazy about F1. There is a big following there as well. The only time we learn something is after a Honda corporate event when the season ended or when Wazari post here at the ERS system has been upgraded.

I think you overestimate the sources behind these rumoured Ferrari and Merc upgrades. These are not leaks, merely media created fantasies. Anyone who knows anything about this sport knows Ferrari are not bringing 30 more HP next season. That definitely didn't come from the team, but the Italian media looking for clicks.

I expect teams to maybe squeeze out low single digit extra HP on the top end, but likely most improvements will be more to do with driveability and deployment, which can gain you time without increasing max power output.

[AR3-GP]

Don't really think this is about Merc and Ferrari bragging, more like them being covered more closely by western media outlets. Western journalists don't have a very good idea of the developments being done over in Japan, so they can't write about it. Some people assume the media silence must mean there is no development going in, that is of course foolish.

There are 1 or 2 japanese outlets that I keep up with that cover Honda material as much as they can. HRC just doesn't have a habit of "leaking" rumors to their national press. The japanese are crazy about F1. There is a big following there as well. The only time we learn something is after a Honda corporate event when the season ended or when Wazari post here at the ERS system has been upgraded.

I think you overestimate the sources behind these rumoured Ferrari and Merc upgrades. These are not leaks, merely media created fantasies. Anyone who knows anything about this sport knows Ferrari are not bringing 30 more HP next season. That definitely didn't come from the team, but the Italian media looking for clicks.

I expect teams to maybe squeeze out low single digit extra HP on the top end, but likely most improvements will be more to do with driveability and deployment, which can gain you time without increasing max power output.

The Mercedes reference came from AMUS. The ferrari stuff has been hinted at for a very long time now.

[chrisc90]

I think there is bigger gains to be made from the ERS recovery and deployment than single digit gains from the PU. Unless you look at the broader power/torque band rather than the peak numbers that are only good for pub talk.

How much extra deployment and power RBPT have up their sleeve they didnt use last year will be the crucial question/statement that gets made. We already know the RBPT ERS was the most efficient on the grid in terms of the clipping on straights.

With the lighter tub not being debuted in 2022 we know we have a decent gain to be made from that.

I have every faith we will be in the top 2 teams come quali/race day - and unless there is another setup mishap (austria 2022 for example) then the car will be very competitive come Sunday aswell.

Not forgetting we have Hannah Schmitz on the pitwall too. One of, if not the best, strategist(s) teams' in F1.

[Cs98]

There are 1 or 2 japanese outlets that I keep up with that cover Honda material as much as they can. HRC just doesn't have a habit of "leaking" rumors to their national press. The japanese are crazy about F1. There is a big following there as well. The only time we learn something is after a Honda corporate event when the season ended or when Wazari post here at the ERS system has been upgraded.

I think you overestimate the sources behind these rumoured Ferrari and Merc upgrades. These are not leaks, merely media created fantasies. Anyone who knows anything about this sport knows Ferrari are not bringing 30 more HP next season. That definitely didn't come from the team, but the Italian media looking for clicks.

I expect teams to maybe squeeze out low single digit extra HP on the top end, but likely most improvements will be more to do with driveability and deployment, which can gain you time without increasing max power output.

The Mercedes reference came from AMUS. The ferrari stuff has been hinted at for a very long time now.

From Italian media, who only release exaggerated pro-Ferrari storylines. They get clicks by hyping Ferrari, that's how it works in the off-season.

[AR3-GP]

I think you overestimate the sources behind these rumoured Ferrari and Merc upgrades. These are not leaks, merely media created fantasies. Anyone who knows anything about this sport knows Ferrari are not bringing 30 more HP next season. That definitely didn't come from the team, but the Italian media looking for clicks.

I expect teams to maybe squeeze out low single digit extra HP on the top end, but likely most improvements will be more to do with driveability and deployment, which can gain you time without increasing max power output.

The Mercedes reference came from AMUS. The ferrari stuff has been hinted at for a very long time now.

From Italian media, who only release exaggerated pro-Ferrari storylines. They get clicks by hyping Ferrari, that's how it works in the off-season.

My default position is to assume all of the manufacturers are being disingenuous.

[Mosin123]

I don't believe that anyone gained power. Ferrari and Renault may use the power they could not use because of their bad reliability. But I don't think they have more than what we saw past season. I am sure they will be happy if they have exactly same number of 22 engine without reliability concern. Mercedes, I think they are worst with E10. But were good with reliability. So if they wanted to reliability update, for sure it is for performance. Fia should not have allow them.
After so many years with these engine formula, even if engines were not freezed, I think there is no room for 10+hp gain. Maybe new fuel would be an exception for this.
Maybe there can be some development what they can use during racing by courage of a season knowledge about engine wear. I would say software optimization or ers optimization but after so many years, I don't know if there is a room for development there.

what about the performance of Mercs engine when we had qualifying modes?, Merc did say they was working to improve this area so the performance can be used for a much longer duration eg a race distance ( when party modes got banned ). Maybe the new reliability upgrades have improved this?
I dont remember any upgrades to the icu since then, i could be wrong though, i dont read all the posts here or visit alot of f1 websites, so probs wrong, But its why i am asking

If mercs engine performance was benchmarked / tested to run at this setting and they have been forced to have it turned down like Ferrari needed to last season, then maybe, they might have performance in hand.

Ofc speculatively speaking + assuming things with out knowing all the details.

[LM10]

I think you overestimate the sources behind these rumoured Ferrari and Merc upgrades. These are not leaks, merely media created fantasies. Anyone who knows anything about this sport knows Ferrari are not bringing 30 more HP next season. That definitely didn't come from the team, but the Italian media looking for clicks.

I expect teams to maybe squeeze out low single digit extra HP on the top end, but likely most improvements will be more to do with driveability and deployment, which can gain you time without increasing max power output.

It was not the Italian media looking for clicks - they didn’t create this story. It started with Steiner talking about the 2023 Ferrari PU early December.

Steiner, appearing at the Lorenzo Bandini Trophy Awards ceremony in Faenza at the weekend where driver Kevin Magnussen collected the accolade, has offered clues about optimism from within Ferrari.

“On Thursday I met Mattia Binotto and he told me that next season's engine will be the bomb,” he said.

“In Emilia Romagna, there is a lot of support for Ferrari. And if it [the engine] is competitive, it will be positive for us too.”

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... 08029/amp/

[PlatinumZealot]

I think there is bigger gains to be made from the ERS recovery and deployment than single digit gains from the PU. Unless you look at the broader power/torque band rather than the peak numbers that are only good for pub talk.

How much extra deployment and power RBPT have up their sleeve they didnt use last year will be the crucial question/statement that gets made. We already know the RBPT ERS was the most efficient on the grid in terms of the clipping on straights.

With the lighter tub not being debuted in 2022 we know we have a decent gain to be made from that.

I have every faith we will be in the top 2 teams come quali/race day - and unless there is another setup mishap (austria 2022 for example) then the car will be very competitive come Sunday aswell.

Not forgetting we have Hannah Schmitz on the pitwall too. One of, if not the best, strategist(s) teams' in F1.

Best to give up on this. For years people saying this and it's not really how it works! It's not horsepower for horsepower.

The PU will always be king when it comes to power gains as the Electrical side is literally limited on the power output side. Also note that Honda specifically speaks of the MGUK.

What was really being noticed by the Mercedes staff, was that Honda had a "robust" MGUK. Meaning, the MGUK can be run harder an cooler in different conditions, generate energy from a wider range of speeds, with smarter functions. The power is limited to 120kW. The Harvesting to the battery from the MGUK is also limited. So this "robustness" is the Advantage.

[etusch]

what about the performance of Mercs engine when we had qualifying modes?, Merc did say they was working to improve this area so the performance can be used for a much longer duration eg a race distance ( when party modes got banned ). Maybe the new reliability upgrades have improved this?
I dont remember any upgrades to the icu since then, i could be wrong though, i dont read all the posts here or visit alot of f1 websites, so probs wrong, But its why i am asking

If mercs engine performance was benchmarked / tested to run at this setting and they have been forced to have it turned down like Ferrari needed to last season, then maybe, they might have performance in hand.

Ofc speculatively speaking + assuming things with out knowing all the details.

What you had said was past. Good old days without so much sensors and standart fuel pump.