2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Shrieker]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

I don't understand.

Mercedes were 0.25-0.35 off of the best pole times, come the end of the season. With last year's dud developed into something.

How come they're worse off for it, when the core issues have been addressed with the new car ?

[mendis]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

What about the Barcelona upgrades of Ferrari and Red Bull?

Diminishing returns....

Yeah it doesn't apply for Mercedes.

[mendis]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

I don't understand.

Mercedes were 0.25-0.35 off of the best pole times, come the end of the season. With last year's dud developed into something.

How come they're worse off for it, when the core issues have been addressed with the new car ?

Mercedes looked better on high altitude, low drag circuits. They were 7 tenths off in Abu Dhabi and a second a lap slower in race in the same gp. Basically, they ended how they started in relation to Red Bull, while they both moved away from the rest of the field. Despite Mercedes bringing upgrades through the year and Red Bull and Ferrari stopping the development right after summer break, the gap remained the same in the last GP. It just shows the competition is also moving at a rapid pace at the front.

[organic]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

I don't understand.

Mercedes were 0.25-0.35 off of the best pole times, come the end of the season. With last year's dud developed into something.

How come they're worse off for it, when the core issues have been addressed with the new car ?

It was more like 4 tenths at a regular track. Abu Dhabi (7 tenths off) seemed to be particularly bad for Merc, whilst Brazil and Mexico's high altitudes favoured their car. Throw in RB and Ferrari stopping development of their cars much earlier than Mercedes (RB's final upgrade was spa for instance) and it's tricky to catch up. It's what you saw for years before when RB would close up at the end of the year and Merc would come with their new car and reestablish the gap. It's just hard to catch up

[DGP123]

23’ going to be similar to 22’. Get used to it. I’d expect a mid pack shake up, but that’s about it.

[Sevach]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

I don't understand.

Mercedes were 0.25-0.35 off of the best pole times, come the end of the season. With last year's dud developed into something.

How come they're worse off for it, when the core issues have been addressed with the new car ?

This might be the trick Mercedes themselves used to pull off during their run of championships, Mercedes would do the math and shut down shop early, a little past mid-season.
In the final quarter of the season we would see Ferrari and RBR a lot racier than they were early in the year and they would go into pre-season with high expectations... only to have them shattered.

Early to say, but... This might be a worst situation than last year, when you have an obvious problem that is hampering your performance you can expect a serious improvement if you truly solve it.
When there's nothing fundamentally wrong and the car is just slow, well...

[PlatinumZealot]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

I don't understand.

Mercedes were 0.25-0.35 off of the best pole times, come the end of the season. With last year's dud developed into something.

How come they're worse off for it, when the core issues have been addressed with the new car ?

RedBull and Ferrari phoned it in early so it gave a false sense that Mercedes were catching in development when Ferrair and Redbull were already deep into refinining 2023 cars.

[InsaneX_Badger]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

What about the Barcelona upgrades of Ferrari and Red Bull?

Diminishing returns....

Diminishing returns in the second season of a massive regulation change.....

[RonMexico]

Its unrealistic to expect anyteam to be close to RedBull and Ferrari after how far ahead they were last year. It's a matter of chipping away and refining to catch them up. I see Mercedes taking to them after Barcelona updgrades.

I don't understand.

Mercedes were 0.25-0.35 off of the best pole times, come the end of the season. With last year's dud developed into something.

How come they're worse off for it, when the core issues have been addressed with the new car ?

RedBull and Ferrari phoned it in early so it gave a false sense that Mercedes were catching in development when Ferrair and Redbull were already deep into refinining 2023 cars.

Why don't Mercedes just build a faster car?

[chrisc90]

Why don't Mercedes just build a faster car?

They haven’t got 5 or 6 hundred million to throw at problems or development anymore.

[Shrieker]

Why don't Mercedes just build a faster car?

They haven’t got 5 or 6 hundred million to throw at problems or development anymore.

Grasping at straws. Assuming others work with a far, far lower budget, amirite ?

[Big Tea]

Lets look at it historically guys, this is the way it works and always has, right back to the early years when the title was as lightly to be lost to DNF as to competition .

A team will be a steamroller for a chunk of time due to 'whatever', then things catch up to them.
14-21 Merc after 10-13 RBR and 99-04 Ferrari, then a chunk of Ferrari v Williams (spoiled by Benaton/Brawn)

Something 'clicks' with one set up and it is the dogs danglers, then maybe people retire, get enticed away or move on for some reason, or regs change and one outfit either luck into the right formula or have the right combination of people and drivers to take advantage of it.

If it was just a matter of the right people or putting enough cash into it Ferrari would be winners most years.

I like Merc, and the drivers, and would have been happy if they had won last year, but I am not that upset because that's the way things go. I was really bored with the Schumacher /Ferrari years and glad of a change to liven things up, as I was when RBR slipped. They are now back on top with Ferrari chasing them and things continue as before.
I would not be F1 as it is if all of us followed only one team or only one driver, that is not how F1 is or has ever been.

[zakhassan44]

Why don't Mercedes just build a faster car?

They haven’t got 5 or 6 hundred million to throw at problems or development anymore.

weren't ferrari and red bull working on similar budgets lol, no need to be so disingenuous

[zeroday]

It was more like 4 tenths at a regular track. Abu Dhabi (7 tenths off) seemed to be particularly bad for Merc, whilst Brazil and Mexico's high altitudes favoured their car. Throw in RB and Ferrari stopping development of their cars much earlier than Mercedes (RB's final upgrade was spa for instance) and it's tricky to catch up. It's what you saw for years before when RB would close up at the end of the year and Merc would come with their new car and reestablish the gap. It's just hard to catch up

One cant help but wonder then what the whole point of the large regulation changes were ultimately for if we may (likely) be stuck with the same fundamental problem which it was intended to solve: the same team(s) dominating. And apparently, as you pointed out, playing catch-up is very hard to do because the leader(s) would "reestablish the gap".

So, with the new regs we now have slower, heavier, bouncier cars with the same pre-reg problems.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[AR3-GP]

It was more like 4 tenths at a regular track. Abu Dhabi (7 tenths off) seemed to be particularly bad for Merc, whilst Brazil and Mexico's high altitudes favoured their car. Throw in RB and Ferrari stopping development of their cars much earlier than Mercedes (RB's final upgrade was spa for instance) and it's tricky to catch up. It's what you saw for years before when RB would close up at the end of the year and Merc would come with their new car and reestablish the gap. It's just hard to catch up

One cant help but wonder then what the whole point of the large regulation changes were ultimately for if we may (likely) be stuck with the same fundamental problem which it was intended to solve: the same team(s) dominating. And apparently, as you pointed out, playing catch-up is very hard to do because the leader(s) would "reestablish the gap".

So, with the new regs we now have slower, heavier, bouncier cars with the same pre-reg problems.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What do you propose? Success ballast?