ECU's and their electric supply

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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J-Raid
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Joined: 18 May 2009, 20:31
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ECU's and their electric supply

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My main questions is, how much power does a F1 ECU requiere?
Also what voltage does it work, 12 or 24v or another?

Depending on that I may run different ways of provide the energy with it, one of them (a bit risky though) is with the help of solar energy. If supply demands are small enough, it could work.

I have though of about 0,4square meters of surface to place the panels, which would mean that given total solar energy is 1000W/m^2, and photovoltaic panel average efficiency 20%, 80W would be provided,w hci hI fear would be too little, right?

Of course I could increase that area, but I need to know the ECU requierements first.
Thanks!

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WhiteBlue
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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Your best bet would be going back to the FIA specification if you can find it on their web site. Or ask McLaren for the information.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

epitaf
epitaf
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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I'd like like this to happen, it's a very nice idea, but I can see it conflicting with many things necessary to an F1 car...

Weight is an obvious reason, I can imagine solar panels weighing more than the batteries required to run the ECU for 2 hours

I would also imagine solar panels are not very "flexible" in their construction, and most surfaces on an F1 car are slightly curved for aero efficiency.... putting anything completely flat on the car would kill the aero..

Saribro
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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From the tender invitation with the hardware requirements that I found here:
http://argent.fia.com/web/appeloffre.ns ... penelement

Page 19:
4.1 Supply Voltage
Nominal operating voltage: 13.6 ±2.0 Volts. Outside this range the unit should have an option to cut the engine.
Minimum start-up voltage threshold: 10.5Volts.
Continuous DC operating range: 9.0 - 18.0Volts.1
The schematic in section 5 (page 20) suggest a 12V supply.
80W seems like a high consumption estimate to me, even at this voltage. I'd guestimate it at 20-25W max, but I'm hardly an expert.

CarsonAu
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Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 16:38

Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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solar panels are pretty damn light and flexible!

And they can be made to curve!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UNSWSunswiftII.jpg

SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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Saribro wrote: I'd guestimate it at 20-25W max, but I'm hardly an expert.
You might be surprised. The high pressure injector drivers are likely part of the ECU, and would consume a good deal more power than the low pressure items on a road car.

Saribro
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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Ah, mmmyes, I hadn't considered those. Ignition is probably not the most friendly system either. More of a data guy myself, hadn't thought of these control outputs.

DaveKillens
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What if the weather does not cooperate and there is no sunshine? Or not enough energy coming from the solar cells to power the ECU for the race?
It doesn't make sense to design two different systems to power just one ECU.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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J-Raid
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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Good to hear all your responses.

First of all, I discovered the voltage too on FIA's site, but not the power. I'll get in contact with MES later today, and when I get a reply I'll let you know.

To DaveKillens and others, first of all, just letting know that the solar option was an outsider one, not the primary one. Though, as it was the most risky one, I thought it would be the one to arise more interesting debate, to see wether or not it would be feasible.

The primary one would be basically the conventional one, though I'm exploring for other ones as well, and I'm open for suggestions too.

DaveKillens
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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I do appreciate the idea of incorporating solar cells in a vehicle. And considering the wings and other large areas which are good canditates for placement of the cells, it is possible. But I was thinking purely along the lines of a dedicated race car. If you go to all the trouble and accept the drawbacks of installing arrays of cells, you will always have to incorporate an alternate power source in case the sun does not co-operate. So from an engineering perspective, you would have a solar cell array, and an alternator/generator on the race car. All that added mass does not make sense on a race car.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

lex
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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hello guys:

I´m doing a little research about how to save energy in all kind of electronic that a f1 has.
but i´m a little confuse about the systems that supply this energy for example to the ecu. is it an usual generator like every other car?

we´re a department of an european university experts in low-power electronic and we want to know if our designs are applicable to this field.
Thank you.

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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http://beta.technologyreview.com/energy/16945/
Researchers at MIT are developing new technology for converting heat into light and then into electricity that could eventually save fuel in vehicles by replacing less-efficient alternators and allowing electrical systems to run without the engine idling.


A "thermophotovoltaic" (TPV) generator burns fuel to heat a material that emits light (labeled "radiator"). The light is then filtered and converted into electricity in photovoltaic (PV) cells. (Image courtesy of John Kassakian, MIT.)

The technology, called thermophotovoltaics, uses gasoline to heat a light-emitting material, in this case tungsten. A photovoltaic cell then converts the light into electricity. The idea has been around since the 1960s, says John Kassakian, MIT electrical engineering and computer science professor. But until now, the light emitters for the photovoltaics produced inefficient and very costly systems. Improvements in the materials used in these latest devices -- possible in part because researchers can modify the material structure at the nanoscale -- are now making much more efficient systems, Kassakian says.


According to Kassakian, the system could potentially be a more efficient way to power electrical systems in a vehicle than the current alternator-based one, which wastes energy in two stages: the internal combustion engine converts only about 30 percent of the energy in fuel into movement, and then the alternator is only 50 percent efficient in converting the mechanical energy into electricity. He says a small prototype thermophotovoltaics device that could confirm the system's improved efficiency might be ready in a year.


The researchers modified the surface structure of the light emitter, etching into it nano-sized pits to tune the wavelengths of light emitted to precisely those a photovoltaic cell can convert most efficiently into electricity. They further refined the device with the use of filters that allow the desired wavelengths of light to pass through to the photovoltaic cells, but reflect other wavelengths back to the light emitter. The reflected light carries energy that helps keep the emitter hot, reducing the amount of fuel needed.


In addition to replacing the alternator with a thermophotovoltaic module, says Kassakian, the technology could be part of an air-conditioning system for vehicles that doesn't require a compressor. Because this would significantly decrease the load on an engine, it could make it possible to turn off the engine when the vehicle stops in traffic and easily restart it. Today's hybrids use this technique to save gas, but require large batteries to provide electricity for the radio and lights, and to restart the engine, and they have to turn the engine back on when the battery charge runs out. In the new MIT system, these batteries wouldn't be necessary.

Indeed, if the new materials do make more efficient thermophotovoltaics, there will be no shortage of potential uses. Kassakian says a particularly good application, when combined with the a new air-conditioning system, could be for use in trucks with sleeper cabs to cool the cabs and provide electricity for televisions and other equipment. And, says Donald Chubb, a researcher at the NASA Glenn Research Center, "The military has had a lot of interest in it for portable power supplies in the field. Because there are no moving parts, there wouldn't be any noise, so you couldn't detect it."


It will be several years before the technology can used in vehicles, though. Challenges include scaling up the fabrication process, developing effective insulation and cooling systems to manage the heat generated, and ensuring that the system remains efficient on a larger scale. The MIT research is funded in part by Toyota, but the automaker has not committed to implementing the technology.



pipex
pipex
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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Nice information Conceptual, Thanks :)
"We will have to wait and see".

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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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that idea just screams inefficient to me, but then again I turned down my MIT acceptance so what do I know.

Saribro
Saribro
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Re: ECU's and their electric supply

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ISLAMATRON wrote:that idea just screams inefficient to me
That makes at least 2 of us then.