2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Lucky]

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.

He needs to assemble a team now.

[Ground Effect]

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.

I'm with Zak on this, no point in keeping him around to have a look around at the new facilities when they arrive, take note of methodologies. This way, he doesn't need a gardening leave. Seidl set the ball rolling for the coming infrastructure, the Mercedes engine and signing Oscar. I'm pretty sure McLaren have a lot to thank him for.

[Lucky]

The relationship between air resistance and contact pressure was already a construction site last year. Even the old MCL36 was not a car for a good compromise. Either it was reasonable in the corners and slow on the straights. Or vice versa. Alpine was one step ahead of the Papaya racer in this discipline.
The new McLaren also generates too much air resistance for the generated downforce. You are not the hit in the curves and yet you put too much surface in the wind on the straights. The GPS data reveals that McLaren has not really made any real progress compared to the fastest in any type of curve.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -verfehlt/

[PlatinumZealot]

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.

He needs to assemble a team now.

This is the thing. The actual team at Hinwill is already there! Unless there will be sweeping job cuts, and I don't see that happening with the type of close-nit culture at Hinwill. The only "team" that Seidl would be building is the same old group of Audi technical heads that are already there from LMP category an the engine guys which are already there too. I have a feeling that Seidl saw the writing on the wall at McLaren - it was clearly a two popes situation and big dilution of focus - and decided there was no point in staying on for 2023.

[Ben1980]

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.

He needs to assemble a team now.

This is the thing. The actual team at Hinwill is already there! Unless there will be sweeping job cuts, and I don't see that happening with the type of close-nit culture at Hinwill. The only "team" that Seidl would be building is the same old group of Audi technical heads that are already there from LMP category an the engine guys which are already there too. I have a feeling that Seidl saw the writing on the wall at McLaren - it was clearly a two popes situation and big dilution of focus - and decided there was no point in staying on for 2023.

He offered to stay the season, that was reported at the time. He has a notice period He could have worked it.

They made a decision to waive it.

You just seem to be making up theories when it's all out in the open.

[CjC]

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.

He needs to assemble a team now.

This is the thing. The actual team at Hinwill is already there! Unless there will be sweeping job cuts, and I don't see that happening with the type of close-nit culture at Hinwill. The only "team" that Seidl would be building is the same old group of Audi technical heads that are already there from LMP category an the engine guys which are already there too. I have a feeling that Seidl saw the writing on the wall at McLaren - it was clearly a two popes situation and big dilution of focus - and decided there was no point in staying on for 2023.

The obvious writing which says being the CEO of a car manufacturer backed F1 team is better then being the team principal of a customer team.
I have to agree the potential for a works team is far greater than Mclaren but it’s just the same old, same old- can they get all the right ingredients to work.
Didn’t work for Mclaren Honda. Alpine are far from a success story. Depending on how hard you squint but Ferrari haven’t been the greatest in recent times.

[AR3-GP]

How do we know that Seidl didn't run to avoid the embarrassment that he must have had a hand in? A long stay with Mclaren could have damaged his reputation, even if Mclaren's results were the result of his own leadership. Surely one can see this angle?

Seidl is highly lauded for his success with the Porsche LMP1 but how do we know he is capable of turning an F1 team around?

[SmallSoldier]

As always thanks for your insight. Any idea where the team thinks they are in the pecking order? From your comment above i'm inferring that they believe they are in the upper half of the midfield and if they had gotten these things that will come in Baku then they will be clear of the midfield?

Is there any truth to what has been reported that they stopped development on the MCL60 a couple of months ago and that the Baku update is essentially a change in aerodynamic philosophy and a B version of the MCL60?

I don’t think there is a B Version of the MCL60, found the quote from Stella:

McLaren has not adjusted its goals despite the unsuccessful start: "We want to finish fourth. It's a long season." The first major package is targeted for Baku. It doesn't necessarily have to be a B version. "A few smaller areas have a pretty big impact on lap times. If we change those, it doesn't necessarily mean we'll have a fundamentally different car."

What has happened is that for example, they were working on a front wing for the current package and they discovered late the loophole that allows you to have small flaps to connect the elements of the front wing to the end plates and the potential to add a few winglets in that location (what we are seeing from Mercedes for example), therefore they stop the work on the wing they were working on to start design, CFD, wind tunnel and ultimately manufacturing of the new wing (those flaps + winglet greatly helps create vortexes that help manage front tire wake).

Since the front wing dictates a lot of your downstream aero, the new wing will have an effect on what you need to do in the floor, which also implies changes to the floor edge for example… Since they found this late and there are several parts that probably need to be introduced simultaneously for them to work as intended, they won’t have all of them ready until Baku… In addition, since there is a month gap between Race 3 and Race 4 it makes sense to push development / analysis of the new path as much as possible (also considering the cost cap), they could have had an interim wing / floor to use, but it doesn’t make sense to manufacture them and introduce them for only 3 races if you know you can have better parts early into the season.

If my reasoning stands up it is a very smart move. It is quite possible they were going to meet the Dev targets if they continued with the previous design, but when they realised the design of this and other parts could be superseded and would exceed the performance of the older parts then they dropped the older designs.

The team need to get the fastest car possible by the end of the season to be a platform for next year or to be able to switch to the new car earlier. Places are not their priority.

By not continuing with an obsolete design just to get it on the car to just have more pace at the seasons start, the team have sacrificed initial pace for a more aggressive development path that will end the season with a quicker car that we would have if we had continued with the obsolete parts. They would have cost more time and money to implement. The moment they aren't needed they are dropped. We now have that time and money under the cap back and we will get to a faster spec quicker than we would have if we wasted time with designs we were going to drop.

The fact that the team are beating themselves up that they didn't see it sooner doesn't suggest to me that it is anything more than an aggressive team who want to do well.

I personally would want the team to work in this manner. As I have said, I do not care about the points finishing season this year, I only care about the car finishing the season as 4th and biting on the ankles of 3rd, ready for a new season where we can push on and fight for regular podiums.

Exactly my thoughts… It’s the smart move long term… Kudos to them for taking the “unpopular” decision and accept the fact that they won’t start the season where they want in order to get more performance a few races into the season.

[genarro]

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.

He needs to assemble a team now.

This is the thing. The actual team at Hinwill is already there! Unless there will be sweeping job cuts, and I don't see that happening with the type of close-nit culture at Hinwill. The only "team" that Seidl would be building is the same old group of Audi technical heads that are already there from LMP category an the engine guys which are already there too. I have a feeling that Seidl saw the writing on the wall at McLaren - it was clearly a two popes situation and big dilution of focus - and decided there was no point in staying on for 2023.

You need a tin foil hat my friend

[SmallSoldier]

How do we know that Seidl didn't run to avoid the embarrassment that he must have had a hand in? A long stay with Mclaren could have damaged his reputation, even if Mclaren's results were the result of his own leadership. Surely one can see this angle?

Seidl is highly lauded for his success with the Porsche LMP1 but how do we know he is capable of turning an F1 team around?

No we won’t know, unless you can either read minds or are in Seidl’s most inner circle and he discloses that… We can create any conspiracy theory we want, of course having a rough start to the season feeds a narrative like that.

But we seem to forget when Seidl leaves McLaren or better said, accept Sauber’s proposal… It was before the announcement in December and there at that point in time development of the MCL60 was still in early stages, so the current struggles weren’t part of the decision… Seidl’s move happened quicker because of Binotto’s exit and Vasseur’s move to Ferrari.

The fact that people pushing a narrative in which Seidl leaves because of the early struggles of the MCL60 seem that they purposely want to dismiss that:

- He is getting a CEO role… Not in Sauber but for Audi.
- A CEO role is a big promotion from been Team Principal and is actually the same role that Zak fills in McLaren
- Beyond the role and pay (which probably isn’t anything to laugh at), it can be very exciting to lead a project like Audi’s… A Manufacturer not much different than Mercedes.

[SmallSoldier]

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.

He needs to assemble a team now.

This is the thing. The actual team at Hinwill is already there! Unless there will be sweeping job cuts, and I don't see that happening with the type of close-nit culture at Hinwill. The only "team" that Seidl would be building is the same old group of Audi technical heads that are already there from LMP category an the engine guys which are already there too. I have a feeling that Seidl saw the writing on the wall at McLaren - it was clearly a two popes situation and big dilution of focus - and decided there was no point in staying on for 2023.

For starters… He needs to find a Team Principal… He won’t be Team Principal of Sauber / Audi… In addition, the Team at Hinwill (with all the respect that they deserve) is one that could use some more bench strength if the goal is to be part of the top teams.

[_cerber1]

How do we know that Seidl didn't run to avoid the embarrassment that he must have had a hand in? A long stay with Mclaren could have damaged his reputation, even if Mclaren's results were the result of his own leadership. Surely one can see this angle?

Seidl is highly lauded for his success with the Porsche LMP1 but how do we know he is capable of turning an F1 team around?

No we won’t know, unless you can either read minds or are in Seidl’s most inner circle and he discloses that… We can create any conspiracy theory we want, of course having a rough start to the season feeds a narrative like that.

But we seem to forget when Seidl leaves McLaren or better said, accept Sauber’s proposal… It was before the announcement in December and there at that point in time development of the MCL60 was still in early stages, so the current struggles weren’t part of the decision… Seidl’s move happened quicker because of Binotto’s exit and Vasseur’s move to Ferrari.

The fact that people pushing a narrative in which Seidl leaves because of the early struggles of the MCL60 seem that they purposely want to dismiss that:

- He is getting a CEO role… Not in Sauber but for Audi.
- A CEO role is a big promotion from been Team Principal and is actually the same role that Zak fills in McLaren
- Beyond the role and pay (which probably isn’t anything to laugh at), it can be very exciting to lead a project like Audi’s… A Manufacturer not much different than Mercedes.

According to Zack, Seidl first told him about leaving in the summer.
In general, you are wasting too much energy on this person, it is obvious that he comes to the McLaren topic only to bare his teeth, he is not interested in your answer, and he will not take this information seriously.

[PhillipM]

Sorry just trying to understand this.
Are you referring to the Baku upgrade?
So they’ve seen parts on other cars who they thought were going to be slower than Mclaren so they’ve decided to ‘copy’ (not the best word) and integrate said part onto the car in time for Baku?

Nothing like that, they realised it in winter too late to change direction and get parts on the car for the first race, those parts are in the pipeline now but the lead time means they won't be on the car for a few races. They've since seen some of the cars behind them using similar stuff so they're kicking themselves a bit that they've basically given away free performance to teams that were behind them last year. I think that's why the team is a bit quiet to the press.

[Lucky]

McLaren - 9
https://the-race.com/formula-1/ranking- ... r-testing/

[charliesmithhd]

Sorry just trying to understand this.
Are you referring to the Baku upgrade?
So they’ve seen parts on other cars who they thought were going to be slower than Mclaren so they’ve decided to ‘copy’ (not the best word) and integrate said part onto the car in time for Baku?

Nothing like that, they realised it in winter too late to change direction and get parts on the car for the first race, those parts are in the pipeline now but the lead time means they won't be on the car for a few races. They've since seen some of the cars behind them using similar stuff so they're kicking themselves a bit that they've basically given away free performance to teams that were behind them last year. I think that's why the team is a bit quiet to the press.

Guessing alpine/aston sculpted sidepods?