2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[SmallSoldier]

In order to change topics a bit, I was curious about how much progress McLaren made year on year with the MCL60… A comparison of their best laps for both Pre-Season testing at Bahrain in 2022 and 2023 is probably a moot exercise, since a lot of variables could drive the wrong conclusion (track temp, wind, fuel loads, etc)… But both laps were done in the C3 tire in the last day of testing of each year… A better analysis would be using Qualifying this weekend, but may shed some ideas or at least start a different conversation than the one we have been plagued with until then.

Orange trace: 2022 MCL36
White trace: 2023 MCL60

Mini Sectors difference:



Interesting to note that the MCL36 seems to have better corner exit compared to the MCL60, nevertheless is also important to note that the MCL60 is faster ultimately on the straights… Maybe a sign of better drag compared to last year? Change in deployment strategies?

It’s also important to note that the MCL60 is clearly faster in every corner, not only is it faster on the straights leading to them, it is also faster during the corner itself, which means that braking is also improved in the MCL60 as well as overall corner speed.

Telemetry:



We can see that the MCL60 has more top speed than the MCL36, also we can notice the difference in minimum speed on most of the corners with a clear exception in the last corner of the lap.



Norris with the MCL60 was clearly able to brake later on almost every corner, even when carrying more speed towards it… While acceleration out of the corner is better on the MCL36

Finally and also for the sake of discussion, I did the same comparison between the fastest lap in Testing 2023 and the Bahrain GP Qualifying… Similar traces with White been the 2023 test and orange the qualifying lap.



Interestingly, a similar situation as when compared to testing where the MCL36 is faster exiting the corners while the MCL60 is faster from the middle to the end of the straight… Maybe corroborating the fact that the MCL60 has shed some drag for 2023… It is even more interesting when one considers that the MCL36 was driven with the list possible amount of fuel, with a very much rubbered in track and with the engine and deployment at maximum settings.

The MCL60 was faster through the lap with the exception of the last corner where it loses a tenth compared to the MCL36, but we can also see how the MCL60 has better cornering speed even when comparing a hot lap in testing versus a qualifying lap

[Emag]

Thanks for the data. Something to keep in mind though is that McLaren was absolutely horrendous at Bahrain last year.

The MCL36 abu dhabi spec would probably demolish the MCL36 Bahrain spec, so you would expect the new car to be faster as well.

If they were slower that would have been a big yikes dawg.

[SmallSoldier]

Thanks for the data. Something to keep in mind though is that McLaren was absolutely horrendous at Bahrain last year.

The MCL36 abu dhabi spec would probably demolish the MCL36 Bahrain spec, so you would expect the new car to be faster as well.

If they were slower that would have been a big yikes dawg.

Undeniably… Just wanted to try to visualize where those improvements were showing themselves… A maybe small factor too is the the floors were raised this season with an expectation that the rule change was going to have a negative effect in lap time which should have erased some of the improvement gained through the year.

The fact that it was a second faster than testing last season and roughly the same lap time as Qualifying is a good sign


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[swifteddie1]

I did not watch all of pre-season testing, just about half of it; were there any interviews directly with James Key? I know they didn't speak to everyone, but I saw they interviewed people like Mike Elliott, Matt Harman, Jan Monchaux, Simone Resta, etc., but I haven't seen or heard from Key. I haven't seen any written press interviews with him since launch day either. He was not at the launch, although he was in a picture they put out in their press release. Strange since McLaren is pretty media-friendly that they've been so tight-lipped, if that's the case.

It's very possible I missed something, though, but I'd like to see what he says, even if it isn't probably going to be revolutionary or substantially more enlightening than what we know already.

I thought he was shown in the garage at one point when they were having issues but i could be mistaken.

[swifteddie1]

Q2 for Oscar, Lando squeezes it into Q3

I fear Q3 at this track is going to be a challenge.

Baring something weird you'd think the Red Bulls, Ferarris, Mercs, Alonso will make Q3. That leaves 3 spots...and if we assume Alpine is still a top 5 team then that leaves 1 spot.

[aran.vtec]

As an Alonso fan, I think you are getting the wrong opinion about the lack of McLaren development. It's true that Aston Martin uses the Mercedes wind tunnel, but let's not forget that its old structure is one of the smallest in the circus. Alpine has the smallest structure ever and I don't think they have these problems, Redbull has the oldest wind tunnel of all and they are the fastest car on the grid. The lack of McLaren development depends only and exclusively on the skill and quality of the technicians and engineers it has. I know it well because if Am has taken this step forward it is above all thanks to Dan Fallows, Blandin, etc. And believe me, after a team principal as good as Seidl left (nothing to take away from Stella) I understood that McLaren wasn't going anywhere. Evidently there is a lack of a person like Ron Dennis who has the ambition and the hunger to win.

That's what iv been saying for sometime ever since the talk started about the new wind tunnel,(lets ignore what was said about other teams wind tunnels)

IF we look at the 2022 the launch spec car was basically a modified FIA spec car concept when we compare to what the top 3 team car concepts,

You still need the technical capabilities to come up with concept that you believe will be the best, If you don't have the staff that can build one of the best cars no wind tunnel will make up that.

[FittingMechanics]

From Twitter - apparently when analyzing data you can see that McLaren has one of the longest 8th gear - indicating they expect their engine to rev higher compared to other Mercedes teams. This probably means that the car (current or updated) is designed to be low drag.

Gear ratios are not currently set in stone - they can be changed prior to first race but I would expect that McLaren would not make radical changes at this point.

[haza]

I think the 8th gear should be dropped imo go back to 6-7 speed

[Holm86]

I think the 8th gear should be dropped imo go back to 6-7 speed

I've been sayin that for years, they should go back to 6 gears.
The ratios today are so close that a bad shift doesn't cost you that much

[mclaren111]

I think the 8th gear should be dropped imo go back to 6-7 speed

I've been sayin that for years, they should go back to 6 gears.
The ratios today are so close that a bad shift doesn't cost you that much

In 2026 it changes to 7 IIRC...

[mzivtins]

I think the 8th gear should be dropped imo go back to 6-7 speed

The reason for adding more gears is that it allows ratios to be shared across more/all tracks easily. With 6 speed you gain the benefits of simplicity, heat and mass reduction, but then you need to swap ratios at almost every track, i think going to 8 was a good idea to get around that problem

[FittingMechanics]

I think the 8th gear should be dropped imo go back to 6-7 speed

The reason for adding more gears is that it allows ratios to be shared across more/all tracks easily. With 6 speed you gain the benefits of simplicity, heat and mass reduction, but then you need to swap ratios at almost every track, i think going to 8 was a good idea to get around that problem

Gear ratios are fixed for a season (now) - so the cost benefit is there.

Still I don't think going to fewer gears would be such a problem, why not allow the teams to optimize for a specific type of tracks. For example imagine Williams optimizing for high speed tracks with gears suited for that. It could allow some teams to be better on certain types of tracks - something that is hard to do today due to many gears available.

But to get on topic - does anyone have an idea why would McLaren be such an outlier compared to other Mercedes powered teams? How was the drag on the car last year?

[mzivtins]

I think the 8th gear should be dropped imo go back to 6-7 speed

The reason for adding more gears is that it allows ratios to be shared across more/all tracks easily. With 6 speed you gain the benefits of simplicity, heat and mass reduction, but then you need to swap ratios at almost every track, i think going to 8 was a good idea to get around that problem

Gear ratios are fixed for a season (now) - so the cost benefit is there.

Still I don't think going to fewer gears would be such a problem, why not allow the teams to optimize for a specific type of tracks. For example imagine Williams optimizing for high speed tracks with gears suited for that. It could allow some teams to be better on certain types of tracks - something that is hard to do today due to many gears available.

Top speed wouldn't really be gear limited, but you would lose a horrific amount of laptime compared to others in the corners due to gear ratios.

Having 8 gears today largely gets around that problem with pretty much every corner being covered by at least one ratio where the care can be in its sweet spot

[Juzh]

The reason for adding more gears is that it allows ratios to be shared across more/all tracks easily. With 6 speed you gain the benefits of simplicity, heat and mass reduction, but then you need to swap ratios at almost every track, i think going to 8 was a good idea to get around that problem

Gear ratios are fixed for a season (now) - so the cost benefit is there.

Still I don't think going to fewer gears would be such a problem, why not allow the teams to optimize for a specific type of tracks. For example imagine Williams optimizing for high speed tracks with gears suited for that. It could allow some teams to be better on certain types of tracks - something that is hard to do today due to many gears available.

Top speed wouldn't really be gear limited, but you would lose a horrific amount of laptime compared to others in the corners due to gear ratios.

These engines need 7 gears at most, and 6 would be enough to have nearly zero laptime loss. Back in 2014 pat symonds (then at williams) said even only 5 gears would be sufficient.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... re/456427/
"The engines have so much torque that we could make do with a five speed gearbox," he said. "It would save a lot of weight and space.

"Unfortunately, the regulations prescribe the eighth gear -- otherwise we would have never had it," said Symonds.

[FittingMechanics]

Gear ratios are fixed for a season (now) - so the cost benefit is there.

Still I don't think going to fewer gears would be such a problem, why not allow the teams to optimize for a specific type of tracks. For example imagine Williams optimizing for high speed tracks with gears suited for that. It could allow some teams to be better on certain types of tracks - something that is hard to do today due to many gears available.

Top speed wouldn't really be gear limited, but you would lose a horrific amount of laptime compared to others in the corners due to gear ratios.

These engines need 7 gears at most, and 6 would be enough to have nearly zero laptime loss. Back in 2014 pat symonds (then at williams) said even only 5 gears would be sufficient.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... re/456427/
"The engines have so much torque that we could make do with a five speed gearbox," he said. "It would save a lot of weight and space.

"Unfortunately, the regulations prescribe the eighth gear -- otherwise we would have never had it," said Symonds.

So why do the teams use gears they don't need? Surely if it was of no advantage, no one would be making unnecessary shifts to higher gears.