We blamed the rear suspension last year.. But look at the new one go! At least we know it works!chrisc90 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 04:41Agree there. We heard that Mercedes had to trim downforce off their floor to stop the bouncing.
All will come to light on Sunday after the race.
If AM can make their car competitive with the merc PU and rear suspension, then it must be Mercedes concept that’s holding them back (if AM didn’t have it wound up today to get the hype train chuffing along)
That is questionable. A team not getting hold of new regulations does not automatically mean regulations are meant to harm them.Sofa King wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 05:09What exactly are Merc fans expecting in a cost cap era where the regulations were changed specifically to end Merc dominance? At the same time they were able to develop last year from the 6th or 7th best team at Imola to the best in Brazil, all on a bounce machine with a suspect engine. The car is much more stable platform with an engine capable of beating Red Bull, as Aston Martin seem to have shown. Merc will extract the potential from their car, and only 12% of the available points are handed out in the next two months. If Red Bull can be challenged early this season, then there could be more time for Merc to try to develop and catch up than last year
Brawn didn't make rules for 2017. He joined Liberty in Jan 2017. His first stab at making cars more raceable came in 2019 with a simplified front wing. His first full blown changes came for 2022, supposedly have come for 2021. None of which was targeted to end Mercedes dominance. Just that Mercedes didn't get it all right.Vanja #66 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 05:44It's not even questionable, Brawn and Liberty set out about making new rules in early 2017 when it looked like Ferrari could have an edge over Mercedes. It was clear 2017+ cars are going to be even harder to overtake than previous generation, so they wanted to change this and they did.
2) What slows down the Mercedes?
It was something of a crisis meeting. Immediately after the end of the second practice session, team boss Toto Wolff, technical director Mike Elliott, chief engineer Andrew Shovlin and chassis boss Loic Serra put their heads together.
#AMuS
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Mercedes presented itself off the track on the first day of practice. Places 8 and 13 for Lewis Hamilton and George Russell did not meet expectations, even if they were not too optimistic after the three days of testing.
#AMuS
Junaid #JB17
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Six tenths down on Red Bull you can get over it at first, but the deficit on Aston Martin gives you food for thought. The rear of the AMR23 with the Mercedes engine is almost identical.
#AMuS
Junaid #JB17
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8h
Analyzing the lap times, it turned out that Hamilton and Russell mainly lose their time in the fast corners 3, 6, 7, 8 and 11. There is a lack of downforce in the rear and grip on the rear axle, which affects traction.
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8h
And with that, the confidence of drivers in their cars is dwindling. From turn 11 to the finish line, the loss is a tenth. In terms of top speed, Mercedes with the new rear wing are only missing two km/h.
James Allison is still there (as Merc's chief technical officer?). Here is a very recent video:McMika98 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 08:38The fact is Merc dominated turbo hybrid era because they had an engine delta for almost 8 years but they dropped the ball massively and now are behind some manufacturers. They could stick the biggest front and rear wing and not worry of top speed deficit.
This era of ground effect with cost cap has exposed the team. Granted they lost many many engineers, but the core team seems to be clueless. I don't know if James Allison is still there but he is not featured anywhere.
Having said all of the above I still think the car is still fast on certain tracks and come quali and race when the bags come off they will be above the midfield just not close to Redbull.
It's no brainer that the PU advantage carried them for a very long time. With the departure of Andy Cowell, that department is also appears to be weak now. With E10 coming into picture, Mercedes suddenly became 3rd best PU on the grid. With a PU that is, at best, on par with others or potentially second best and a weak aero philosophy, they are struggling to move beyond 3rd. The more time they spend in this spiral, regardless of the talented people in their ranks, the more they weaken. George should befriend Lawrence Stroll before Lando does.McMika98 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 08:38The fact is Merc dominated turbo hybrid era because they had an engine delta for almost 8 years but they dropped the ball massively and now are behind some manufacturers. They could stick the biggest front and rear wing and not worry of top speed deficit.
This era of ground effect with cost cap has exposed the team. Granted they lost many many engineers, but the core team seems to be clueless. I don't know if James Allison is still there but he is not featured anywhere.
Having said all of the above I still think the car is still fast on certain tracks and come quali and race when the bags come off they will be above the midfield just not close to Redbull.
Doesn't explain why all the other Merc powered teams were regularly so far behind if it was all the PU.McMika98 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2023, 08:38The fact is Merc dominated turbo hybrid era because they had an engine delta for almost 8 years but they dropped the ball massively and now are behind some manufacturers. They could stick the biggest front and rear wing and not worry of top speed deficit.
This era of ground effect with cost cap has exposed the team. Granted they lost many many engineers, but the core team seems to be clueless. I don't know if James Allison is still there but he is not featured anywhere.
Having said all of the above I still think the car is still fast on certain tracks and come quali and race when the bags come off they will be above the midfield just not close to Redbull.
