What if the breakaway happens?

[megz]

Unless I'm very mistaken the Concorde Agreement included a non compete clause. The teams that started in F1 could not drive for another open wheel series. Is it so far fetched to assume Bernie wrote the same clause into his contracts in 2005 and 2006? It is just an idea and I may be wrong but many people had access to the old concords, so it will not be hard to check that.

One of the good things about the changes from the old concord is the fact that the FIA do not require the participants of the championship to have a contract with Bernie. That was taken out of the regulations for the 2008 season. So they can allways go off and do their own thing when they have no contract with the man.

What of Formula Renault? Ferrari's involvement in A1GP etc

Even if that were the case it could so easily be FIAT-Ferrari or just plain FIAT with all the Ferrari people - easy peasy lemon squeezy.

What if Ferrari are obliged to race in FIA-F1 and send in some V8's from 2006 and just send the same chassis as the FOTA-F1 Ferrari and clean up, now THAT would be a laugh.

[WhiteBlue]

AFAIK Ferrari do not compete in A1GP and Renault F1 do not compete in Formula Renault. So I see no infringement there.

Ferrari could not compete with a non homologized engine either.

Competing under the Maseratti, Alfa-Romeo, Lancia or Fiat brand would be no problem.

[gcdugas]

AFAIK Ferrari do not compete in A1GP and Renault F1 do not compete in Formula Renault. So I see no infringement there.

Ferrari could not compete with a non homologized engine either.

Competing under the Maseratti, Alfa-Romeo, Lancia or Fiat brand would be no problem.

What is a homologized engine?

[Giblet]

A homologation reaction, also known as homologization, is any chemical reaction that effects an overall increase of the carbon skeleton of a saturated reactant molecule.[1] The reactants undergo a homologation converting them into the next member of the homologous series. For example the reaction of aldehydes and ketones with diazomethane or methoxymethylenetriphenylphosphine effectively inserts a methylene (-CH2-) unit in the hydrocarbon chain and the reaction product is the next homologue.

well duh.....

At least it's a spell check friendly word and an easy typo or auto correction mistake. Opinions aside, which I respect from pretty much everyone here, WB is no dummy.

[gcdugas]

Engines and parts can be homologated. Chemicals can be homologized. Hence my use of the

[jon-mullen]

Maybe we should just keep our organic chem to another forum?

[kilcoo316]

Unless I'm very mistaken the Concorde Agreement included a non compete clause.

There is no concorde at the minute.

[gcdugas]

One thing that is obvious but unmentioned is that not one of the new teams has a "manufacturer" engine. They are all Cosworth powered, even the other potential candidate teams. With Williams and Force India both easily bought out of their engine contracts for an amount equal to what it would cost to fulfill them, the whole FOM/FIA F1 grid will be Cosworth only. Max may think no one has noticed but I assure you the FOTA teams know this full well.

The manufacturers hold all the cards and they know it. Why they chose to let Max delay another week is not known to us but I suspect two things are possible. The first being that they want to be viewed as the long suffering victims who "went the extra mile" in an effort to prevent a split and thus garner public sympathy. The latter reason may be more political in anticipation of the FIA including Ferrari and the two Red Bull teams on the list presumptuously. They may believe that such inclusion could strengthen their hand and place the FIA in an "actionable" position (legal jeopardy). And possibly there is a third reason. On the 19 June deadline, the teams will be racing at the "last until further notice" Silverstone GP. I can't think of two people who are more unpopular there than MM and BCE. The timing and atmosphere will be ripe for any move that stuffs those two. If you are going to launch a new venture to compete directly against MM & BCE, what could be better venue to announce it at than at Silverstone? Just a thought. Maybe the teams will use my idea and have FOTA stickers on the cars. I know the fans would love it. They would totally eat it up.

The manufacturers have been heating things up quite a bit. Ghosen's "intermediaries" comments, the formidable ACEA weighing in calling for "transparent governance", open talk about Ecclestone's inequitable distribution scheme (the "envy card" is the easiest card to play in the whole deck), FOTA wanting to "reform bad rules", etc. In the next week FOTA has said they will outlay their proposals and grievances publicly because it has come to the point where they have no other choice. Given that their arguments are simple, rational (desiring transparent gov't and stable rules), worthy of sympathy (50% siphoned off the top for what?) and easy to relate to (everyone hates a smug elitist like Max who "knows what is best" for those below him).... and given that the FIA's arguments are in legalese pointing to clause A, section 32, line 15c, given that the FIA is vacillating and irrational.... and given that we now see they have been reduced to name calling and threatening.... well it is hard for me to see how the FIA can prevail in the proverbial "court of public opinion". Think about all the fans that the FIA/FOM "care" so much about with their $400 tickets and post race results altering "courts". The public is fed up with F1's excessive politics and they hold the FIA responsible for it 99% of it. Say what you want about NASCAR, they know who pays the bills and they treat their fans with respect as customers. The teams know this too and they want to change it but BCE's prices prevent it right now.

[donskar]

The manufacturers hold all the cards and they know it. Why they chose to let Max delay another week is not known to us but I suspect two things are possible. The first being that they want to be viewed as the long suffering victims who "went the extra mile" in an effort to prevent a split and thus garner public sympathy. The latter reason may be more political in anticipation of the FIA including Ferrari and the two Red Bull teams on the list presumptuously. They may believe that such inclusion could strengthen their hand and place the FIA in an "actionable" position (legal jeopardy). And possibly there is a third reason. On the 19 June deadline, the teams will be racing at the "last until further notice" Silverstone GP. I can't think of two people who are more unpopular there than MM and BCE. The timing and atmosphere will be ripe for any move that stuffs those two. If you are going to launch a new venture to compete directly against MM & BCE, what could be better venue to announce it at than at Silverstone? Just a thought. Maybe the teams will use my idea and have FOTA stickers on the cars. I know the fans would love it. They would totally eat it up.

The manufacturers have been heating things up quite a bit. Ghosen's "intermediaries" comments, the formidable ACEA weighing in calling for "transparent governance", open talk about Ecclestone's inequitable distribution scheme (the "envy card" is the easiest card to play in the whole deck), FOTA wanting to "reform bad rules", etc. In the next week FOTA has said they will outlay their proposals and grievances publicly because it has come to the point where they have no other choice. Given that their arguments are simple, rational (desiring transparent gov't and stable rules), worthy of sympathy (50% siphoned off the top for what?) and easy to relate to (everyone hates a smug elitist like Max who "knows what is best" for those below him).... and given that the FIA's arguments are in legalese pointing to clause A, section 32, line 15c, given that the FIA is vacillating and irrational.... and given that we now see they have been reduced to name calling and threatening.... well it is hard for me to see how the FIA can prevail in the proverbial "court of public opinion". Think about all the fans that the FIA/FOM "care" so much about with their $400 tickets and post race results altering "courts". The public is fed up with F1's excessive politics and they hold the FIA responsible for it 99% of it. Say what you want about NASCAR, they know who pays the bills and they treat their fans with respect as customers. The teams know this too and they want to change it but BCE's prices prevent it right now.

Excellent post, gcdugas. Nice to see a rational, no name-calling post again.
I agree that FOTA seems to be doing well recently and are winning the PR battle. One point I think you overlooked (I'm at work and reading/typing quickly): is Max forestalling a FOTA series by dragging this out? WHAT IF at the next "D Day" Max announces that, since FOTA is showing signs of caving (he can spin it that way)that he is magnanimously extending the deadline another 7 days (or even 14)? At some point it will be too late for FOTA to pull togeher a series for next year. I don't think a one-year sabbatical is a realistic option for FOTA; they need to be racing somewhere next season.

I also think you are making a potentially fatal error about "court of public opinion." Is there any reason to believe that Max is sufficiently rational to care about the public? Has this become a pure exercise in control (Max: Power. Bernie: Money)? Bernie probably cares about fans (purely as a source of revenue), but it seems that Max cares only about maintaining an iron grip on power.

And a question for those of you who follow the political side more closely than do: is Max the sole voice AND decision-maker for FIA? Is there no group or committee he works with or does he truly have some sort of dictatorial control? One thing that has to be said for FIA -- they show a totally united, seamless face to the world.

[xpensive]

Brilliant post gcdugas, very little to add to that one. =D>

[Scotracer]

I think the reason the teams went Cosworth is both stability and the fact that the Cosworth powerplants are known to run at 20,000rpm in their current form - all the other ones have been optimised for 18,000rpm.

[Conceptual]

I think the reason the teams went Cosworth is both stability and the fact that the Cosworth powerplants are known to run at 20,000rpm in their current form - all the other ones have been optimised for 18,000rpm.

If I recall, the Cosworth engine that was submitted for homologization at Brazil 2006 was running at 21k RPM...

I just hope that Cosworth is using this time applying for the "reliability upgrades" that the other teams have done since 2006 to get some more BHP from their powerplant.

It will be great to hear these engine singing at 21k again next year!

[donskar]

Luca Cordero de Montezemolo fires a broadside: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76127

"In a couple of years the problem with Formula 1 will be solved - as I really hope, with a responsible FIA, as we want, or, as happens in other sports, organising our own championship. Because when you have engines, gearboxes, brands, technology, organisation, capability to invest, it is not difficult. So the problem will be solved, I hope very soon."
....................
"We want not only to maintain but also to improve the F1 DNA, technology, innovation, and competition. We want to cap in a very important way the cost, because everybody has been too far, and I think FOTA has done a strong demonstration to be able to cut costs in 2009 for 50 per cent more of the general cost for engine and gearbox."

And is he trying to divide FIA here?:
We will continue in this direction. We are together and we want to find a solution, and I am sure that inside the FIA there will be people responsible enough to understand that now it is absolutely necessary not to create trouble, to destroy Formula 1, but to solve the problem."

And the bottom line is the bottom line:
"Everybody sees what is happening in Formula 1. I do not understand the reason," he said. "Anyway I think our conditions are constructive, are very clear: governance, stable rules - the people don't understand any more rules that change every six months, one day it's KERS, another day it's standard engines – and looking ahead to have a balance between cost and revenues, to let new commerce enter.

"I'm very pleased to have new teams, and when I say teams I mean Formula 1 not Formula 3."

I am biased toward FOTA, but I think most people will agree that FOTA has won the war of words to this point (FWIW)

[mozza47]

First and foremost: Bernie won't let it happen. He's only interested in the money, and his revenues will be hit hard if F1 turns into another boring A1 type yawn.

The solution: Get Max's hookers back, give him something to put his grubby little mitts on, so he can leave the FIA to the racers.

[gcdugas]

If I recall, the Cosworth engine that was submitted for homologization at Brazil 2006 was running at 21k RPM...

I just hope that Cosworth is using this time applying for the "reliability upgrades" that the other teams have done since 2006 to get some more BHP from their powerplant.

It will be great to hear these engine singing at 21k again next year!

Why? Are you planning on watching the Cosworth only 12 car grid FOM series that all the TV outlets will rebroadcast at 3:00AM? Or are you going to pay $400 for a seat in an empty bleacher?