2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[FDD]

There is a table in the text with lap times Max vs Lec for the first stint for 2022 and 2023

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10440880/

Not so bad, considering the F1-75 was a very well balanced car already at Bahrain last season whereas the SF-23 isn't yet.

I was not looking from that side, only to compare with Max lap times.
I think if they find a proper set-up they will be immediately very close to RB, about 0,2-0,3 sec away, plus if we consider that this track has a quite abrasive surface it is very likely that we'll be in a different distance in the race for the next one already.
As some guys already stated here on basis on methodical analyses, I agree that is too early to draw any conclusions how fast/slow is SF-23.

[Seanspeed]

RB was comfortably the fastest car in the race, giving them a chance to nurse their tyres and look much better than the rest. Not that they weren't, but it wasn't about degradation but rather about the pure pace of the car, at least 0.5s faster than the 2nd fastest car, Ferrari.

The pure pace of the car is not going to show if you have to drive much more cautiously than you'd otherwise like to, knowing you ARE going to have tire troubles sooner or later, so you need to extend as much as you can before it starts impacting things significantly.

Qualifying shows the pure pace of the car. The race showed the weakness - ability to use those tires over a distance - so, degradation. The problem seems to be that Ferrari isn't just facing some minor issues here, but extreme degradation problems. Whatever the car is doing, it seems disastrous on the tires. So much so that it may even be hurting them in qualifying to a degree. Would certainly explain why they seemed to show a weakness in S3 over a single lap.

[deadhead]

But also Alfa has different rear suspension!!!

The F1 75 didn't have any specific issues regarding tyre deg. When they struggled for tyre wear the RB18 was simply too quick and in order to keep up they used the tyres more.

This happened to RB as well, specifically in Austria and Melbourne.

Graining in Miami race and Imola sprint were the only issues before the political directive.

"political directive"

I like that.

You are right, the car worked very well before that and I suspect it would've evolved nicely, just like the RB19, and instead we have this compromised version now that needs a lot of help..

[Vanja #66]

The pure pace of the car is not going to show if you have to drive much more cautiously than you'd otherwise like to, knowing you ARE going to have tire troubles sooner or later, so you need to extend as much as you can before it starts impacting things significantly.

Qualifying shows the pure pace of the car. The race showed the weakness - ability to use those tires over a distance - so, degradation. The problem seems to be that Ferrari isn't just facing some minor issues here, but extreme degradation problems. Whatever the car is doing, it seems disastrous on the tires. So much so that it may even be hurting them in qualifying to a degree. Would certainly explain why they seemed to show a weakness in S3 over a single lap.

Qualy shows one lap pace, which can be slower than possible if you heat the tyres up slower. And you might want to do that if you found something for the race that helps you control them better, which RB did.

[mzso]

What makes you say the SF-23 will have at least 7 wins?

At least 5, likely 7+ This weekend was very unlucky for them and there is obviously a lot more that car can do, they admitted they expected to lap 0.4s faster at least. Wings were holding them down and it's much easier to fix wings than floor or drag. It's a reverse from last year, when Ferrari was running at 100% in the early races and RB was slowly running better and better.

Seems very doubtful. RB was nowhere near pushed to its full performance by the rivals in Bahrain. And even when they started with a handicap last year they trashed Ferrari during the whole year, only allowing them 4 wins.
When was the last time Ferrari turned things around from a sizable disadvantage to really fight for the championship? Schumacher era? In first race of 98 the McLarens lapped everyone else, but the championship decider was still the last race. That's the best I got.

I have higher hopes for Aston Martin at this point. It seems like they managed to put together a good technical team, that's only just getting warmed up. (Their handicap is that they are a one driver team...)

[SoulPancake13]

I wrote a little about the topic in the car thread, but I think some people here underestimate how much these wings may have affected the performance. The front wing working as predicted and the new rear wing which would keep similar top speeds but more downforce would have theoretically allowed Ferrari to raise the car somewhat and run a softer suspension. Since this was apparently not possible, the car ran very low which required extremely stiff suspension, destroying the tyres and causing porpoising in the end of the race.

What I am trying to say is that, for example, in Jeddah, if this front limitation is fixed, we could see an extremely strong Ferrari. Ferrari lost most of the time in the slow corners, a sign of bad mechanical grip as a result of this stiff suspension. It is no surprise that AMR and Red Bull, the two teams with the best mechanical grip so far, had the best deg in the race. The Ferrari engineers are not stupid. I am sure they are working day and night to extract the potential from the car. Vasseur says himself in the media that the team is convinced of the aerodynamic concept. Let's have a little faith in the new boss.

[Vanja #66]

Oh no, please don't bring sensible discussion to this thread, people like it more when they can just bash the team no matter what

[AR3-GP]

I wrote a little about the topic in the car thread, but I think some people here underestimate how much these wings may have affected the performance. The front wing working as predicted and the new rear wing which would keep similar top speeds but more downforce would have theoretically allowed Ferrari to raise the car somewhat and run a softer suspension. Since this was apparently not possible, the car ran very low which required extremely stiff suspension, destroying the tyres and causing porpoising in the end of the race.

What I am trying to say is that, for example, in Jeddah, if this front limitation is fixed, we could see an extremely strong Ferrari. Ferrari lost most of the time in the slow corners, a sign of bad mechanical grip as a result of this stiff suspension. It is no surprise that AMR and Red Bull, the two teams with the best mechanical grip so far, had the best deg in the race. The Ferrari engineers are not stupid. I am sure they are working day and night to extract the potential from the car. Vasseur says himself in the media that the team is convinced of the aerodynamic concept. Let's have a little faith in the new boss.

You only have to look at RB in Australia last year to see how disastrous the performance can be when the setup isn't right.

[SoulPancake13]

Oh no, please don't bring sensible discussion to this thread, people like it more when they can just bash the team no matter what

I would be lying if I said after the race that I didn't respond emotionally, but taking some time away from social media and focusing on other things to calm down, the facts of the situation Ferrari finds themselves in paint a nicer picture than the result of the race.

My biggest concern(other than how to fix the car performance) is Sainz. First stint saw him 8 tenths off Leclerc's pace. Even comparing used to new softs, this is unacceptable. Leclerc was still pushing to defend against Checo and kept the spot. He will need to come back to the end of last season's performance sooner rather than later.

[Venturiation]

Oh no, please don't bring sensible discussion to this thread, people like it more when they can just bash the team no matter what

I would be lying if I said after the race that I didn't respond emotionally, but taking some time away from social media and focusing on other things to calm down, the facts of the situation Ferrari finds themselves in paint a nicer picture than the result of the race.

My biggest concern(other than how to fix the car performance) is Sainz. First stint saw him 8 tenths off Leclerc's pace. Even comparing used to new softs, this is unacceptable. Leclerc was still pushing to defend against Checo and kept the spot. He will need to come back to the end of last season's performance sooner rather than later.

I think the setup wasn’t the same sainz had more bouncing

[DGP123]

My biggest concern(other than how to fix the car performance) is Sainz. First stint saw him 8 tenths off Leclerc's pace. Even comparing used to new softs, this is unacceptable. Leclerc was still pushing to defend against Checo and kept the spot. He will need to come back to the end of last season's performance sooner rather than later.

If Sainz flops again, Ferrari will target Hamilton to replace the Spaniard, with just a year to pay off. Piero Ferrari & John Elkann have always wanted him.

[Juzh]

I've noticed that Ferrari drivers were losing massive amount of time from turn 11 and 13.
They were simply going off the throttle massively, and it's a pattern present in almost all laps i checked, both for Leclerc and Sainz.

Example:

https://abload.de/img/screenshot2023-03-07av1edx.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot2023-03-07a95dtu.png

They're saving tyres. Go check some verstappen race laps, he's doing the same, he never exceeds sustained 240 km/h trough those corners and is basically at 2/3 throttle for the duration, cruising.
Perez was doing something similar, then when he caught up to leclerc in second stint he turned it up and easy full throttle at 260 km/h.

It's 90% down to tyres, I think this race was maybe too extreme in this regard. Hopefully not many races will be like that.

[Juzh]

I've noticed that Ferrari drivers were losing massive amount of time from turn 11 and 13.
They were simply going off the throttle massively, and it's a pattern present in almost all laps i checked, both for Leclerc and Sainz.

Example:

https://abload.de/img/screenshot2023-03-07av1edx.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot2023-03-07a95dtu.png

They're saving tyres. Go check some verstappen race laps, he's doing the same, he never exceeds sustained 240 km/h trough those corners and is basically at 2/3 throttle for the duration, cruising.
Perez was doing something similar, then when he caught up to leclerc in second stint he turned it up and easy full throttle at 260 km/h.

It's 90% down to tyres, I think this race was maybe too extreme in this regard. Hopefully not many races will be like that.

[ing.]

The fact that they noticed an issue which lead to changing the ES and control electronics before the race and the problem repeated itself during the race points to it being an installation problem that was not detected and not corrected with the installation of the new parts. Wiring fault, grounding fault or similar?

[AR3-GP]

The fact that they noticed an issue which lead to changing the ES and control electronics before the race and the problem repeated itself during the race points to it being an installation problem that was not detected and not corrected with the installation of the new parts. Wiring fault, grounding fault or similar?

It begs the question. Why did this not happen to any of the 5 other Ferrari powered cars that day. Why Leclerc?