2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[ing.]

The fact that they noticed an issue which lead to changing the ES and control electronics before the race and the problem repeated itself during the race points to it being an installation problem that was not detected and not corrected with the installation of the new parts. Wiring fault, grounding fault or similar?

It begs the question. Why did this not happen to any of the 5 other Ferrari powered cars that day. Why Leclerc?

Yeah, well we know Charles is the unlucky one—hopefully this will change—but being a human error I suppose he had the misfortune of having the wrong technician working on his car or the hardware.

If it was a manufacturing error in the making of the harness—these are quite complex and assemblies made by hand—then they’ll need to improve their quality processes, I’d say.

[scuderiabrandon]

The fact that they noticed an issue which lead to changing the ES and control electronics before the race and the problem repeated itself during the race points to it being an installation problem that was not detected and not corrected with the installation of the new parts. Wiring fault, grounding fault or similar?

It begs the question. Why did this not happen to any of the 5 other Ferrari powered cars that day. Why Leclerc?

Perhaps it has something to do with the packaging. Charles just got the short end of the stick that day and Sainz got lucky. Hopefully it can be prevented from happening ever again.

It could've failed at a more important time during the season. All this is obviously assuming the reports are true.

[Vanja #66]

I would be lying if I said after the race that I didn't respond emotionally, but taking some time away from social media and focusing on other things to calm down, the facts of the situation Ferrari finds themselves in paint a nicer picture than the result of the race.

My biggest concern(other than how to fix the car performance) is Sainz. First stint saw him 8 tenths off Leclerc's pace. Even comparing used to new softs, this is unacceptable. Leclerc was still pushing to defend against Checo and kept the spot. He will need to come back to the end of last season's performance sooner rather than later.

Used vs new softs is not a big deal, 18" Pirellis prefer having a quick lap on them for surface treatment.

[ryaan2904]

Oh no, please don't bring sensible discussion to this thread, people like it more when they can just bash the team no matter what

To be honest, this team absolutely does deserve bashing. They have failed to deliver for years and even still they make silly mistakes. Imagine Lec losing both his CEs in one race. Potentially starting with a penalty on the 2nd race. Such gross incompetence should not happen inside a championship contender team.

What does not deserve bashing is the car concept & direction. It has potential and is limited by weak front end problems. That and porpoising.

[Juzh]

I would be lying if I said after the race that I didn't respond emotionally, but taking some time away from social media and focusing on other things to calm down, the facts of the situation Ferrari finds themselves in paint a nicer picture than the result of the race.

My biggest concern(other than how to fix the car performance) is Sainz. First stint saw him 8 tenths off Leclerc's pace. Even comparing used to new softs, this is unacceptable. Leclerc was still pushing to defend against Checo and kept the spot. He will need to come back to the end of last season's performance sooner rather than later.

Used vs new softs is not a big deal, 18" Pirellis prefer having a quick lap on them for surface treatment.

That's simply not true, and even ferrari doesn't believe this to be the case, that was the whole reason they didn't do second q3 run, to have a better tyre for the race.

[Xyz22]

I would be lying if I said after the race that I didn't respond emotionally, but taking some time away from social media and focusing on other things to calm down, the facts of the situation Ferrari finds themselves in paint a nicer picture than the result of the race.

My biggest concern(other than how to fix the car performance) is Sainz. First stint saw him 8 tenths off Leclerc's pace. Even comparing used to new softs, this is unacceptable. Leclerc was still pushing to defend against Checo and kept the spot. He will need to come back to the end of last season's performance sooner rather than later.

Used vs new softs is not a big deal, 18" Pirellis prefer having a quick lap on them for surface treatment.

That's simply not true, and even ferrari doesn't believe this to be the case, that was the whole reason they didn't do second q3 run, to have a better tyre for the race.

It's clearly an advantage for lap 1 and 2 but as Vanja said is not a "big deal". Leclerc said the same, specifically the new soft provides better grip especially on lap 1 but is not a game changer, according to him.

[Vanja #66]

That's simply not true, and even ferrari doesn't believe this to be the case, that was the whole reason they didn't do second q3 run, to have a better tyre for the race.

So Sainz was so much slower than Leclerc because his tyres had 1 out-lap, Q2 lap and 1 in-lap more than Leclerc's?

[Juzh]

That's simply not true, and even ferrari doesn't believe this to be the case, that was the whole reason they didn't do second q3 run, to have a better tyre for the race.

So Sainz was so much slower than Leclerc because his tyres had 1 out-lap, Q2 lap and 1 in-lap more than Leclerc's?

What I'm saying is there is an advantage in new tyres. Tyres with a quali lap on them aren't better, contrary to what you suggested.

[ryaan2904]

That's simply not true, and even ferrari doesn't believe this to be the case, that was the whole reason they didn't do second q3 run, to have a better tyre for the race.

So Sainz was so much slower than Leclerc because his tyres had 1 out-lap, Q2 lap and 1 in-lap more than Leclerc's?

What I'm saying is there is an advantage in new tyres. Tyres with a quali lap on them aren't better, contrary to what you suggested.

Actually, on some tracks teams prefer scrubbed tyres, i think its to prevent graining

[Vanja #66]

What I'm saying is there is an advantage in new tyres. Tyres with a quali lap on them aren't better, contrary to what you suggested.

Sorry, but I have to argue semantics, I did say a quick lap, not a qualy lap Although for some reason I forgot to add "seem to prefer"

Used vs new softs is not a big deal, 18" Pirellis prefer having a quick lap on them for surface treatment.

In any case, the difference can't be anything close to the deficit Sainz had vs Leclerc in the first stint.

[Juzh]

What I'm saying is there is an advantage in new tyres. Tyres with a quali lap on them aren't better, contrary to what you suggested.

Sorry, but I have to argue semantics, I did say a quick lap, not a qualy lap Although for some reason I forgot to add "seem to prefer"

Used vs new softs is not a big deal, 18" Pirellis prefer having a quick lap on them for surface treatment.

In any case, the difference can't be anything close to the deficit Sainz had vs Leclerc in the first stint.

No, they are not semantics. You said scrubbed is better than when it quite obviously isn't in vast majority of cases and certainly wasn't in bahrain. "fast lap" in this case was a Q2 lap at considerable pace. Ferrari could easily send out Lec again to do a semi fast lap, but they decided not to.

As for lec/sai, i agree new tyre wasn't that influential, but that's besides the point, I've never mentioned them.

So Sainz was so much slower than Leclerc because his tyres had 1 out-lap, Q2 lap and 1 in-lap more than Leclerc's?

What I'm saying is there is an advantage in new tyres. Tyres with a quali lap on them aren't better, contrary to what you suggested.

Actually, on some tracks teams prefer scrubbed tyres, i think its to prevent graining

Very very rare occasions, I remember only aston doing this on a more regular basis. This is far from being definitive across the grid.

[taperoo2k]

It begs the question. Why did this not happen to any of the 5 other Ferrari powered cars that day. Why Leclerc?

Yeah, well we know Charles is the unlucky one—hopefully this will change—but being a human error I suppose he had the misfortune of having the wrong technician working on his car or the hardware.

If it was a manufacturing error in the making of the harness—these are quite complex and assemblies made by hand—then they’ll need to improve their quality processes, I’d say.

In this case I'd query just how good Ferrari's QA testing is. If it was an error made while the car was being built at the track then that's likely to be an easy fix. If it's how say the ICE was assembled at the Factory, then that's a bigger problem to resolve i.e. is it an isolated incident or does it effect all the ICE's manufactured so far for the season.

The team is still in a bit of an organisational shambles, I do think Vasseur given enough time can fix the problems.

[scuderiabrandon]

It begs the question. Why did this not happen to any of the 5 other Ferrari powered cars that day. Why Leclerc?

Yeah, well we know Charles is the unlucky one—hopefully this will change—but being a human error I suppose he had the misfortune of having the wrong technician working on his car or the hardware.

If it was a manufacturing error in the making of the harness—these are quite complex and assemblies made by hand—then they’ll need to improve their quality processes, I’d say.

In this case I'd query just how good Ferrari's QA testing is. If it was an error made while the car was being built at the track then that's likely to be an easy fix. If it's how say the ICE was assembled at the Factory, then that's a bigger problem to resolve i.e. is it an isolated incident or does it effect all the ICE's manufactured so far for the season.

The team is still in a bit of an organisational shambles, I do think Vasseur given enough time can fix the problems.

I'm leaning more towards an installation error. Only happened on Leclerc's car. The first CE & ES were replaced before the race, and the exact same parts are reported to be the cause of the DNF.

[ing.]

Oh no, please don't bring sensible discussion to this thread, people like it more when they can just bash the team no matter what

To be honest, this team absolutely does deserve bashing. They have failed to deliver for years and even still they make silly mistakes. Imagine Lec losing both his CEs in one race. Potentially starting with a penalty on the 2nd race. Such gross incompetence should not happen inside a championship contender team.

What does not deserve bashing is the car concept & direction. It has potential and is limited by weak front end problems. That and porpoising.

Agree… and disagree about the car concept. With almost 3/4 of a year to prepare (with clear targets and objectives) and with basically just a warmed over ‘22 car—same roll-hoop/inlet, same cooling scheme inside similar “cleaned-up” sidepods, same suspension layout with front push-rod, rear pull-rod—with only the steering rack lowered to provide lower CG, better aero management and maybe better bump-steer characteristics this car should have hit the ground running and chased the RBs hard. Not run around chasing “set-up” issues, floppy front and rear wings, toasted electrics and tires, etc.

So, yeah, maybe a legacy of the Binotto era—where no faults were seen or admitted—and maybe because of the TD vacuum left by the same Binotto, but not an impressive start by the team. Hope they get their act together soon for their sake.

[mzso]

The fact that they noticed an issue which lead to changing the ES and control electronics before the race and the problem repeated itself during the race points to it being an installation problem that was not detected and not corrected with the installation of the new parts. Wiring fault, grounding fault or similar?

The motorsport.it article explicitly says not human error, but a too weak wiring harness:

The electrical system literally went haywire due to the wiring harness being inadequate for the stresses it was subjected to on the Sakhir bumps. The problem was identified and fixed-there was, therefore, no human error Sunday morning in the frantic replacement of the battery and ECU.

The article paints pretty gloomy picture. One ECU is destroyed and one battery pack also damaged. But also mentions that the single pylon rear wing first had a DRS actuator malfunction, then after they fixed it was flexing during free practice, and is now permanently shelved. And one of the wheel fairings broke.
Of course all of the failures happened on Leclerc's car...