Hockey and Formula 1

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Would a year off

harm Formula one?
7
64%
help Formula one?
4
36%
 
Total votes: 11

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Hockey and Formula 1

Post

Yeah yeah, unrelated right?

Just bear with me for a second. A long second.

Goal scoring = overtaking.

NHL Hockey was reaching a breaking point here in North America. The league wanted salary caps because it could not continue it's solvency as a league if it was not put in place. Some teams were for the idea of the caps, but all of the players were not. Trouble was there was also rule changes being brought in from the higher ups. Nobody could reach a consensus on what are basically technical regulations.

People didn't want shootouts at the end of every tie game. Goalies were up in arms as their equipment was about to be downsized, and their ability to skate from their net if need be was partially taken away. The lack of goals was making the games boring to watch, and made it hard for many players to do what they do best, skate fast and score goals.

The league (Gary Bettman) and the NHLPA (NHL Players Association, their union), could not reach a middle ground on salary caps, and distribution of money from various sources.

In Hockey and most team sports, your main expense is the Stadium first, then the players after. This is comparable to a chassis and the facilities to build it, and drivers.

The rules were tweaked every year or two, trying to "open up the game". Little things like decreasing the size of the crease, moving the goal line forward so there was more room behind the net, experimenting with penalties being called or not (hacking) , but these all made small changes, and opened up the game in other ways that may not have been expected.

F1 has been doing the same thing for a long time. Little band aid fixes here and there.... 3.5 liter engines, down to 3, grooved tires, v8's, etc. We know all this.

F1 and Hockey came to the same conclusion, this is NOT working anymore.

What hockey did was take a year off. Instead of panicking and folding under Bettman's thumb pressure, the strike stayed and a settlement was not reached. The talks and non-talks ran into the next "season", until it was declared there was not enough games to even have half a season.

Eventually, a settlement was reached, and nobody reacted knee jerk style. We had no Hockey for a year, but when it did come back, the game, the excitement, the goals, and by the greatest magnitude, the PASSION were back.

I am actually beginning to wonder if what F1 needs is a year off to regroup. It worked for Hockey, could it work for Formula 1?

During the downtime, there could be non championship races in last years cars, set up by the teams and manufacturers. Having a couple of sprint races in the weekend of each non championship race, giving the drivers and for sure the testers and reserves some actual track time.

There could also be the occasional one make race with all the drivers at whatever tracks. Who wouldn't want to see all of the current F1 drivers in evenly matched cars, like the Procar series of old the BMW ran with M1's? Schumi and Mika could even stop in for a race. I think that would brew up some passion in the fans and the people of Formula 1.

I think a year off could possibly do less harm then good. Teams could have time to restructure properly for a budget cap, and new teams would have suficient time to produce a possibly decent car for their first season.

My passion is the only thing keeping me interested in Formula 1. We all talk on this site like we build F1 cars for a living and have a wind tunnel in our backyard sheds. It's great having knowledge that average fan does not, but at the end of the day, us hacks just love the sport for the sheer excitement of it, and year off I think might do me well.


Like Joni Mitchell said:


"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot"
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

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The last hockey game I watched was the triple overtime win by the Flyers in like 1996-7.

I overslept, and was late for school the next day, and got my bedroom TV taken away for a month.

I haven't watched a NHL game since!

PS: If you want to see a crazy sport, watch the pro paintball guys. Now THAT is utterly amazing to watch!

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

Post

Neat, but I just think that both sides of the fence in Formula 1 could learn a lot from the NHL and how it handled it's recent dispute.

I would like to look the paintball for the markers. I think while someone else on this site recommended a more permanent solution of Mr.Mosley, which was a bit over the top, I would like to see him get pelted by 50 pink markers while walking out of the FIA trailer.

He'd probably like it though, he likes pain apparently.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

majicmeow
majicmeow
-2
Joined: 05 Feb 2008, 07:03

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

Post

Giblet,

I completely agree with your idea. the NHL has become not only the "fastest game on ice" again, but also the "best game on ice" again.

The NHLPA strike gave Bettman a slice of reality. It didn't really force his or the teams hand, but it gave them a nice LONG time to draw up resolutions to MOST of the games major issues at the time.

Max and Bernie may have all the power in F1, but I find it hard to believe that the teams do not have the ability to strike and NOT get punished for it by going to court like Bernie would most certainly try.

Bernie can talk all he wants about contracts etc... but a real does of reality where nobody shows up in Australia for round 1 next year would definitely change his mind. He can talk big all he wants, but when it comes down to dollars and cents, suing the hell out of the teams still wont recoup the money he'd loose as a result of the championship being suspended due to a strike.

I'd say go for it FOTA... stand up for what you stand for, dont just give into an old mans outrageous demands.

STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE!!!
:mrgreen:

-Aaron

Dukeage
Dukeage
0
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 21:28

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

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There was a reason for the NHL break : the players went on strike. The GPDA won't strike.

User avatar
pjobmathew
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 09:09

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

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What about all those engineers who'll go jobless for a year ???????

How do u assure me that that F1 will be back after a year ???????

Suppose we do get back after a year will that be a "happily ever after" ??????

I wonder .....................

User avatar
jddh1
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2007, 05:30
Location: New York City

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

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majicmeow wrote:Giblet,

I completely agree with your idea. the NHL has become not only the "fastest game on ice" again, but also the "best game on ice" again.
I beg to differ with that comment. It was fun the year after the lock-out. But looking at the difference on calls/non-calls between reg season and playoffs it seems to me that we are going back to the old ways. Every season you see the shift to the old ways. And I can tell you why: it's because the refs are old and they're used to old rules. Besides, it baffles me how you can have a 55 yr old ref. At that age, reflexes slow, so you need young guys to ref pro games (I guess a max of 45 is the limit.)

User avatar
jddh1
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2007, 05:30
Location: New York City

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

Post

Now, after my rant on hockey (I'm a huge NY Rangers fan, but I enjoy watching college hockey more because calls are consistent and not too many of those lame non-calls because the game is tight), it's time to bank my 2 cents on the topic.

I would not like the year off in F1. It would be ridiculous. You can make a point that although the NHL game is better or faster (although I disagree somewhat), the over state of the league has been hurt from the break.

The same would happen with F1. The racing might get better, but the series will suffer.

The FOZ
The FOZ
0
Joined: 07 Feb 2008, 23:04
Location: Winterpeg, Canada

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

Post

I can certainly draw parallels between Bernie/Max and Bettman. And I think the stillborn season from a couple years back certainly was the most extreme result possible given the disagreement.

One difference, though - FIA is already lining up replacement teams, which, as I recally, has only happened in American Football and possibly MLB. Did Bud Selig ever try that one? Also, the NHLPA never threatened to form their own series, whilst the FOTA appears to be doing just that.

But some time apart might be just what the doctor ordered for FIA and FOTA.

Also, Detroit wins tonight, final score 4-3.

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

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The FOZ wrote:Also, Detroit wins tonight, final score 4-3.
And Kris Draper scores the winner in overtime. Wishful thinking, but what the heck.

I'd like to point out another sports strike, in major league baseball. In 1994 the season was interrupted, and it became a strike. The consequences were that there was a sharp drop off in TV and fan attendance. Here in Toronto, the Jays have never been the same, or even came close to enjoying that same level of fan support as in the pre-strike days.

The idea of having FOTA and FIA take a bit of time off to chill out is a good one, but I fear it will never come about. A break would assume that both sides would work constructively to achieve a compromise. But when one side is confrontational, unwilling to accept a compromise, and is intent on forcing their way, then there is little hope. And yes, I'm talking about Max Mosley. Previously, the deadline for the next year's competitors is around December. But Max moved it up six months, and of course, little time remained for any kind of solution. So today the list of 2010 competitors comes out, and old issues have not been resolved. From the fan's perspective, nothing was really solved. Will the 45 mil budget be enforced? Will the conditions of the FOTA teams be recognized? Will Ferrari be racing in Formula One next year? Stay tuned, it may take awhile, but eventually these questions will be answered.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

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There is a striking similarity between the two sports in that they are both largely irrelevant here in America. :wink:

Keep in mind that the NHL lost its major television partner (ESPN) and untold millions in corporate sponsorship as a result of the prolonged strike. The possibility exists for F1 to lose much more because F1 isn't exactly known for stability. I can't imagine television networks and sponsors would be clamoring to pay the high price of F1 in the future once a precedent is set for the teams to go on strike.

If a strike is deemed necessary because FOTA and the FIA can't get together to resolve their differences, they should just stop with the nonsense and divorce themselves from one another.

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

Post

Jobless for a year? Welcome to the worst unemployment rate in 25 years. Just because you are an engineer in a sport means nothing. People are losing jobs left right and center, and this is reality. if you want job security, you need to realize there is no such thing in this climate, even a government job, your head is always on the block.

F1 might have more trouble coming back form a year off like hockey was able to. But what of my suggestion that teams run non championship races, and one make races to entertain us, because that is half the reason they are there in the first place, us.

I don't think the year off could work, whether you call it a strike or a regrouping or whatever, without the non champ races.

Who care if the drivers strike or not? If they don't have cars and their teams to race with, it makes little difference if they choose to strike or not.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

andartop
andartop
14
Joined: 08 Jun 2008, 22:01
Location: London, UK

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

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I don't think it's such a good idea:
a) No one can afford to risk losing a sponsor, and that risk would be quite high if they didn't compete for year.
b) Number 1 rule in showbiz? The show must go on!
c) Most of the couples who take "time off" to "redefine their relationship" end breaking up anyway.
d) Given the way teams operate I can't see any of them willing to compete in non championship races. They'd much rather test for a year in private.
e) Given the current situation, the easiest way to find that time to cool off would be the FIA postponing such major rule changes (again) at least for a year in order to discuss possible solutions with the teams. New teams should be allowed to enter if they still wish so, otherwise F1 can survive a season with 8 teams.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Hockey and Formula 1

Post

andartop wrote:I don't think it's such a good idea:
a) No one can afford to risk losing a sponsor, and that risk would be quite high if they didn't compete for year.
b) Number 1 rule in showbiz? The show must go on!
c) Most of the couples who take "time off" to "redefine their relationship" end breaking up anyway.
d) Given the way teams operate I can't see any of them willing to compete in non championship races. They'd much rather test for a year in private.
e) Given the current situation, the easiest way to find that time to cool off would be the FIA postponing such major rule changes (again) at least for a year in order to discuss possible solutions with the teams. New teams should be allowed to enter if they still wish so, otherwise F1 can survive a season with 8 teams.

You bring up very valid points I had not considered yet.

a - yeah, sponsorship is huge, but a smart sponsor would find a way to host the "Vodafone Non Championship race at the A1 ring" or someting else to get their names in our faces. Small sponsors could not though, unless these NC races are broadcasted and they get the TV time anyways. I mean they could broadcast in HD on the internet. That would show the Dinosaurs at FOM what technology can add to motor racing.

b - if the show sucks, it will die quickly, we have no way of knowing if the show will be good or not at this point. The teams are still reeling from the current reg changes. a team like mclaren might still be going WTF at the end of the season, and now they have a bad car, and new rules again. waste. At the same time, yes, the show needs to go on for the fans. Can the show be a NC race for 1 year?

c - yes couples, but this is an international sport with tracks and fans. Couples don't have that, and while a cute metaphor, it's really nothing more.

d - why would a team not want to compete, and give their reserve and testers actual track time in a race, better evaluating them and still acquiring usable data?

e - For sure... another year of the same regs... but we want new teams at the same time, and they won't enter under them. If everything goes to crap and the FOTA teams choose to not participate in the FIA F1 championship, then i think my solution for the FOTA teams would be a decent one. I think Max/Bern would take them back, like a wayward son.

So in short, I agree with a lot of your points, but what if there are no FOTA teams next season?
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute