Ferrari SF23

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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organic
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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Image from @LuisFeF1 on Twitter

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Pointed out in Kyle's original analysis of the sf23 but here is the double mousehole

jambuka
jambuka
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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https://scuderiafans.com/f1-ferrari-in- ... -of-sf-23/

Why is the singal pillar wing so important ? If it is so important, why was it not installed right from the beginning of winter testing and developed with proper structural strength ?

Andi76
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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Ferraris new breakdisc, drawing from formu1a.uno

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It has 990 holes, while it was 1050 holes last year. The whole system is said to have 300-400 g less weight. The position is also different than on the F1-75. They moved the caliper to the front, as can be seen on the Haas VF23, while on the F1-75 it was also placed at the bottom but at the back of the corner.

The break caliphers are placed like on this pic from the Haas :

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Red Bulls(placing of the caliphers like on the AM see picture below), and their highly developed caliphers(drawing from Formu1a.uno below) are said to save weight and improve cooling, while Ferrari focused on a higher strength.

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Vanja #66
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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jambuka wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 21:58
https://scuderiafans.com/f1-ferrari-in- ... -of-sf-23/

Why is the singal pillar wing so important ? If it is so important, why was it not installed right from the beginning of winter testing and developed with proper structural strength ?
New wing has a different connection to the pylon, seems it is aimed at providing more flexing at speed to reduce drag. The way the connection is made also suggests less losses anyway, so it could be an all-round improvement
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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Vanja #66 wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 23:04
jambuka wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 21:58
https://scuderiafans.com/f1-ferrari-in- ... -of-sf-23/

Why is the singal pillar wing so important ? If it is so important, why was it not installed right from the beginning of winter testing and developed with proper structural strength ?
New wing has a different connection to the pylon, seems it is aimed at providing more flexing at speed to reduce drag. The way the connection is made also suggests less losses anyway, so it could be an all-round improvement
The wing itself has a different shape. That is likely the driving reason for it.

I'm not convinced the target is "flexing". FIA has cracked down on that considerably since 2021. I think that Ferrari just got caught out with the diet program.
A lion must kill its prey.

Sevach
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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jambuka wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 21:58
https://scuderiafans.com/f1-ferrari-in- ... -of-sf-23/

Why is the singal pillar wing so important ? If it is so important, why was it not installed right from the beginning of winter testing and developed with proper structural strength ?
I believe the hope is that this wing is a step forward in the drag/downforce ratio, brings more downforce without increasing drag, or the downforce increase is substantial for a small drag penalty.

This wing is a proper "swan neck", being held from the top, the older model still attaches underneath the mainplane with it's 2 brackets (maybe last year this was optimal due to weight penalty).
AR3-GP wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 23:22

The wing itself has a different shape. That is likely the driving reason for it.

I'm not convinced the target is "flexing". FIA has cracked down on that considerably since 2021. I think that Ferrari just got caught out with the diet program.
During my lifetime i've seen numerous crackdowns on flexing, give it a few years and people start pushing what's possible again.
It's the ultimate way to have a wing that is both low drag and high downforce, so teams will always be trying.

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Vanja #66
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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AR3-GP wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 23:22
The wing itself has a different shape. That is likely the driving reason for it.

I'm not convinced the target is "flexing". FIA has cracked down on that considerably since 2021. I think that Ferrari just got caught out with the diet program.
I'm 99% sure that wing is the intended baseline for this season, with all the novelties compared to 2022, so they want to use it as intended. Don't underestimate the capabilities of flexing with this new design, the current double-pylon solution is basically completely stiff while the connecting (pivot) point on new wing is right where it should be. I'm sure flexing wouldn't be a big gain, but if you start with (almost) 0 - even 0.1 is a big gain :mrgreen:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Vinlarr89
Vinlarr89
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Joined: 27 Feb 2023, 14:32

Re: Ferrari SF23

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AR3-GP wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 23:22
Vanja #66 wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 23:04
jambuka wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 21:58
https://scuderiafans.com/f1-ferrari-in- ... -of-sf-23/

Why is the singal pillar wing so important ? If it is so important, why was it not installed right from the beginning of winter testing and developed with proper structural strength ?
New wing has a different connection to the pylon, seems it is aimed at providing more flexing at speed to reduce drag. The way the connection is made also suggests less losses anyway, so it could be an all-round improvement
The wing itself has a different shape. That is likely the driving reason for it.

I'm not convinced the target is "flexing". FIA has cracked down on that considerably since 2021. I think that Ferrari just got caught out with the diet program.
The target will 100% be flexing. Teams will be looking to stretch to the limits of all regulations, and having a wing that offers less drag at high speed and more downforce in medium speed conditions will be essential to the manipulation or maximisation of the legalities and this achieving optimal performance.

This wing could have a big impact on the rear end performance of the car, but will obviously not improve the pointy front end or lack of that Charles needs to compete.

I’m sure there were some metrics released showing comparison of the laps when Charles tested this in FP1 and they looked promising, only short lived and clearly not fit for purpose at that time.

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SiLo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Vanja #66 wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 09:33
AR3-GP wrote:
14 Mar 2023, 23:22
The wing itself has a different shape. That is likely the driving reason for it.

I'm not convinced the target is "flexing". FIA has cracked down on that considerably since 2021. I think that Ferrari just got caught out with the diet program.
I'm 99% sure that wing is the intended baseline for this season, with all the novelties compared to 2022, so they want to use it as intended. Don't underestimate the capabilities of flexing with this new design, the current double-pylon solution is basically completely stiff while the connecting (pivot) point on new wing is right where it should be. I'm sure flexing wouldn't be a big gain, but if you start with (almost) 0 - even 0.1 is a big gain :mrgreen:
They literally run with small stickers on the wings so the FIA can keep on top of the flexing from the rear facing camera.
Felipe Baby!

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Vanja #66
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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SiLo wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 11:48
They literally run with small stickers on the wings so the FIA can keep on top of the flexing from the rear facing camera.
And that prevents teams from exploiting flexing as much as possible? :mrgreen:

Marginal gains, everywhere, that's the name of the game
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Ferrari SF23

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In Bahrain, the team raced with what was the rear wing scheduled for the weekend – for medium loads – and more unloaded than the previous year's F1-75. The single pylon wing should have only been compared in practice, for an important data collection.
Formu1a say this in their latest article. Claim that single pylon was for fp test only like they usually do for new wings

https://www.formu1a.uno/ferrari-sf-23-a ... -red-bull/

Andi76
Andi76
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Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Vanja #66 wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 13:09
SiLo wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 11:48
They literally run with small stickers on the wings so the FIA can keep on top of the flexing from the rear facing camera.
And that prevents teams from exploiting flexing as much as possible? :mrgreen:

Marginal gains, everywhere, that's the name of the game
Absolutely. I think that the new rear wing will be very important and was also the one planned for the SF-23. All the not-so-positive developments within Ferrari have, however, I think delayed the development of the SF-23 somewhat, which is perfectly normal when the person who manages the technical side leaves/fires and the head of the car concept looks around for something new. I think Saudi Arabia will show that the SF-23 is much closer to Red Bull than most thought after Bahrain....

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gordonthegun
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Location: Monza, Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF23

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New shapes under the diffuser?

Image

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SiLo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Vanja #66 wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 13:09
SiLo wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 11:48
They literally run with small stickers on the wings so the FIA can keep on top of the flexing from the rear facing camera.
And that prevents teams from exploiting flexing as much as possible? :mrgreen:

Marginal gains, everywhere, that's the name of the game
Certainly on the rear wing, the amount of flex they would have been able to get away with could easily be done by a double pylon setup.
Felipe Baby!

Vinlarr89
Vinlarr89
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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Ferrari wouldn’t develop a single pylon set up if there was no net benefit. However small or minuscule the savings, if it improves the car they will be made. Is any one privy to info for the upcoming upgrades for Jeddah/aus??