Mercedes W14

[ringo]

TBF that was a new everything except for the front wing

Well, the entire rear end hardware was still a Mercedes W13.

The AMR22B was essentially sidepods and a floor.

Let's not warp and corrupt the meaning of a B spec car in F1.
a new Floor and sidepods doesn't make a B spec car.
In fact those upgrades dont even have to be installes on the same weekend. they can be 3 or 4 races apart. Whould call it B 0.5 then B?

[Vanja #66]

The front wishbone geometry and placement is a big driver in how air is fed into the sidepods and the floor intake.

Sidepods yes, floor not so much. Most, and likely all of the air that goes into the floor (not the floor vanes) comes from under the nose. The innermost vane that sheds the underfloor vortex is most likely fed from the clean air under the suspension. Air going through and between suspension arms goes mostly on top of the floor, like this:

[PlatinumZealot]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake. Redbull has the widest opening. They possibly deflect the wake better or has a floor that can ingest wheel wake without issues.

Stolen from reddit:

[Hoffman900]

The front wishbone geometry and placement is a big driver in how air is fed into the sidepods and the floor intake.

Sidepods yes, floor not so much. Most, and likely all of the air that goes into the floor (not the floor vanes) comes from under the nose. The innermost vane that sheds the underfloor vortex is most likely fed from the clean air under the suspension. Air going through and between suspension arms goes mostly on top of the floor, like this:

https://i.imgur.com/3PP7DOD.png

Fair point on the floor. Strakes yes, actual underfloor, likely not. That said it all works in conjunction.

[AR3-GP]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake. Redbull has the widest opening. They possibly deflect the wake better or has a floor that can ingest wheel wake without issues.

I think this is an interesting observation. Could it be the compromise Mercedes have to make due to the small sidepod?

[Hoffman900]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake. Redbull has the widest opening. They possibly deflect the wake better or has a floor that can ingest wheel wake without issues.

I think this is an interesting observation. Could it be the compromise Mercedes have to make due to the small sidepod?

As Vanja pointed out, the floor is only fed in the innermost portion, the strakes are more or less what you’re seeing and they’re about vortex generation.

The 2002 Katz paper is good primer on how this stuff works:



https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... Components


Larger text:
https://viterbik12.usc.edu/wp-content/u ... namics.pdf (page 23-24)

[OO7]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake. Redbull has the widest opening. They possibly deflect the wake better or has a floor that can ingest wheel wake without issues.

Stolen from reddit:

https://preview.redd.it/qoiu8pkvtdoa1.j ... 6e1ef6aedb

https://preview.redd.it/oqf0ks7vtdoa1.j ... 91bfb31b7d

Looks like Mercedes can use the outside of the fence more effectively to push tyre wake away though.

[Hoffman900]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake. Redbull has the widest opening. They possibly deflect the wake better or has a floor that can ingest wheel wake without issues.

Stolen from reddit:

https://preview.redd.it/qoiu8pkvtdoa1.j ... 6e1ef6aedb

https://preview.redd.it/oqf0ks7vtdoa1.j ... 91bfb31b7d

Looks like Mercedes can use the outside of the fence more effectively to push tyre wake away though.

Why are we trying to do? What does that solve? Like, how does that fix their current problems?

The AM appears draggier in a straight line than the RB and possibly the current Merc, and it handles this better, at least visually, than the Merc.

But that’s not the problem, lack of df is the problem.

[torpor]

Hi,

I read this thread very carefully. Also the Mercedes W13 thread. If thes answer to my question has already been answered before I'm sorry.

We discussed so much about the disadvantages and compromises that come with the zero pod design.

But what are the desired pros and advantages of the zero pod design? What is the hope from this?

When I've seen the concept for the first time on the W13 I thought it was minimum drag. But this obviously isn't the case.

[Vanja #66]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake.

Look at launch-spec floor inlet on F1-75, even narrower, innermost vane starts all the way under the nose.



If you make it narrower, then you won't force too much pressurisation in the front part of the floor, ie you won't create lift where you want downforce.

[OO7]

Looks like Mercedes can use the outside of the fence more effectively to push tyre wake away though.

Why are we trying to do? What does that solve? Like, how does that fix their current problems?

The AM appears draggier in a straight line than the RB and possibly the current Merc, and it handles this better, at least visually, than the Merc.

But that’s not the problem, lack of df is the problem.

My post was simply a response to the possible reason Mercedes choose the design, it wasn't about fixing their ills.

[Farnborough]

Agree with Vanja, the purpose of tbe entrance "vains" is to shed as much air to outside the floor platform as possible to make the pressure drop effective along the remaining floor area, and hence provide negative pressure to improve downforce as a whole.

It seems they need just enough entry air to keep flows moving and to work with for their design to operate.

The vains are a little like mens multiple blade razor in providing as many chances as possible to get that airflow seperated and out the side exit, not needed for underfloor.

[Mchamilton]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake.

Look at launch-spec floor inlet on F1-75, even narrower, innermost vane starts all the way under the nose.

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... arlo-1.jpg

If you make it narrower, then you won't force too much pressurisation in the front part of the floor, ie you won't create lift where you want downforce.

Would more mass flow into the vanes create a stronger and more stable vane/tunnel vortex?

[Vanja #66]

Would more mass flow into the vanes create a stronger and more stable vane/tunnel vortex?

Yes, but only if the rest of the floor is aligned with that intention

[PlatinumZealot]

There are other details that Merceded are missing. And engineering sense tells us its the floor . Look at the width if the floor entrance here. It is definitely too restricted in an effort to deflect front wheel wake. Redbull has the widest opening. They possibly deflect the wake better or has a floor that can ingest wheel wake without issues.

I think this is an interesting observation. Could it be the compromise Mercedes have to make due to the small sidepod?

It could very well be.

RedBull thinking: Let front wheel wake blast straight past and deflect it later with the side pod shoulder; this diverts less the inboard flows from the fuselage and thus less disrupted air stream to the floor. Big straight, inrush to the floor.

Mercedes thinking: Deflect the front wheel wake early as possible. Use the bargeboard to turn the inboard flow stream from the fuselage outward and carry the wheel wake with it. Hopes... clean flow down the centre line.. disadvantage choked off air flow in front of the floor.