2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[vorticism]

League of it’s own at the minute then the Red Bull?

Haven't they been since 2009? Chassis and aero wise.

[ringo]

Redbull alwayd have reliability issues at the start of the season. And street tracks always give them some transmission failures or gear change issues.
By the sound of Max's car i recon the gearbox was damaged internally. The sound was almost gritty, as if something was freewheeling inside the box.

Anyhow he will have 1 second a lap pace. Max can win any race this year from dead last once he has enough laps.

What I have also noticed is how calm he was about the issue. He knows the season is long and the car has the pace.

[chrisc90]

Redbull alwayd have reliability issues at the start of the season. And street tracks always give them some transmission failures or gear change issues.
By the sound of Max's car i recon the gearbox was damaged internally. The sound was almost gritty, as if something was freewheeling inside the box.

Anyhow he will have 1 second a lap pace. Max can win any race this year from dead last once he has enough laps.

What I have also noticed is how calm he was about the issue. He knows the season is long and the car has the pace.

I don’t know about gearbox internally. This was a new unit prior to FP3 so one would presume some reliability of the amount of distance that box did. (Does anyone know if gearboxes are also homologated? Or whether they can be tweaked over winter?)
If it was internal, I’d expect no drive at all. Given max limped back to the pits at GP’s request to say he was happy, kind of suggests it’s not internal in my opinion. I think it’s a drive shaft (mechanics looking at the RHS of the car when in the pit) and he was limping home on drove To just the LHS with the diff.

[ringo]

I think it can still have drive from a lay shaft inside and not from another. I dont know how these f1 boxes look inside these days, but for argument sake, maybe he lost odd number gears and had even numbers, based on the construction. I am not sure and someone can enlighten me on it, but i believe it's possible to damage some gear sets inside and still have drive on other gears.

Why I dont think it's the driveshaft is that he would probably have braking issues on the rear axle and maybe we would have seen a lock up or some debris flying if the shaft broke.
The engine lost engagement with the box and over revved. Signs of clutch failure or gears.
It should not have over revved if he lost traction on only 1 wheel from a broken shaft, but still have drive on the other wheel. I think!

[chrisc90]

It would be interesting to know the gearbox layout and what drives what. Together with the diff setup.

I had a little failure on my car gearbox, it lost 3rd, 4th and 6th gear. But yet 1,2 and 5th worked fine. It had spun the gearing for those failed gears on the input shaft so only a could of gears worked that weren’t linked to the gearing that had spun on the input shaft. (If that makes sense - VAG 02M box).

A F1 box might be completely different in terms of what gear drives what and if there are additional shafts that rotate.

Would be interesting to find out how they work.

[vorticism]

They're a typical layshaft setup internally as with any manual transmission. The unique bits are in the dogs (the seamless shift tech) and the compact clutch and control electrohydraulics.

[AR3-GP]

Considering the high probability of safety car, I would lean towards starting on soft tires for both drivers and then getting rid of them on the first safety car to satisfy the 2 tire rule. Then really the race opens up to copy everyone else from there.

The risk starting on mediums is a safety car near the pit stop window for the soft tire runners.

[organic]

Considering the high probability of safety car, I would lean towards starting on soft tires for both drivers and then getting rid of them on the first safety car to satisfy the 2 tire rule. Then really the race opens up to copy everyone else from there.

The risk starting on mediums is a safety car near the pit stop window for the soft tire runners.

Starting on softs makes sense. Up to temperature quickly which will be crucial for both the start and any potential early safety car. Plus an early safety car would make extending the soft tyre stint for the sufficient length easier

I think max will do soft-hard also and he even has fresh softs to run this strat which should help him on lap 1. Hoping the midfield drivers around him start on mediums

[AR3-GP]

Considering the high probability of safety car, I would lean towards starting on soft tires for both drivers and then getting rid of them on the first safety car to satisfy the 2 tire rule. Then really the race opens up to copy everyone else from there.

The risk starting on mediums is a safety car near the pit stop window for the soft tire runners.

Starting on softs makes sense. Up to temperature quickly which will be crucial for both the start and any potential early safety car. Plus an early safety car would make extending the soft tyre stint for the sufficient length easier

I think max will do soft-hard also and he even has fresh softs to run this strat which should help him on lap 1. Hoping the midfield drivers around him start on mediums

It didn't seem like anyone wanted to use the hard tire. Granted Max has been so quick that he made the Hard tire look good, but I still am not sure it's a good tire for the race.

[wvkc9nhe]

Hello, Wazari-san. I am a fan of Honda's racing team.
Last year, I heard your explanation about Honda's engine leading its competitors by 10.5KW. I felt that this statement perfectly matched Red Bull's advantage on the straight. The number was very convincing. Considering that Red Bull reduced the weight of their car by 10KG based on the 2022 model this year, it was expected that they would extend their lead in Bahrain.
However, some recent news has left me confused.
First, I saw an interview with HRC's Technical Director, Mr. Yasuaki Asaki (https://wpb.shueisha.co.jp/news/car/202 ... =SocialDog), who said that Honda's engine power is on par with its competitors, but the MGU-H and high-efficiency battery can bring a 0.1-second advantage. Is Mr. Asaki trying to maintain Honda's usual low profile?
Also, Dr. Marco of the Red Bull team has recently been speaking frequently, saying that according to the team's information statistics, Ferrari now has the strongest engine in the paddock, while Honda and Mercedes are on par. What do you think about this? Thank you.

The F1 community is very small and a lot us know others at other teams. I don't know anyone at Alpine but I do know individuals (engineers) at Ferrari and Mercedes; individuals who I have known for a long time. There is "gentlemen's agreement" on what is said and not said about work but I feel confident based on data and conversations about what I said at the time.

Asaki-san said all the engines are fairly close in output. He is being vaguely specific or specifically vague on purpose. It's very clever and as an official spokesperson for Honda he should be. One can say the power difference between all ICE's are only about 1%. 1% of 870 HP is almost 9 HP. Is that a small amount or a significant amount?

As far as Dr Marko, I have no comment.

last year it generally accepted that ferrari has a small advantage in peak power over a quali lap ,maybe they still retain that small advantage but their pu still break like in first race and their topspeed come from carrying a small rear wing.
Honda said they had a clear advantage in deployment over their competitors and during winter they solved some of their reliability issues on mguk side so i expert further improvements on deployments side.the real test will come from tracks with longer straights like france and not a lot heavy braking points to recharge your batteries ,i know which pu i would like to have i owned a team.redbull are now winning are not in mood to share credits with their pu supplier nothing new there.

It has been proven that since Red Bull completed weight reduction, Ferrari's so-called advantage in qualifying does not exist at all. In fact, after last year's summer break, Red Bull reduced its weight by 10KG, but even with a minimum limit of 10KG, Ferrari's advantage in qualifying no longer exists.

[wvkc9nhe]

Don't confuse peak bhp with the rest of the engine characteristics. Sometimes its best to sacrifice a bit of peak 'pub-talk' figures for a greater range of power over TV e whole rpm range.

I've seen a lot of road/track cars here in the UK where there has been 50-75bhp less and those cars are much faster than those with more power, due to a better overall 'average' power over the rpm range

This has always been the case.

Honda documented how shaving off 12hp off peak in 2006 for some mid range was faster around Monza, of all places.

We do all sorts of torque shaping work with our engines in real life. Making a big peak number is actually relative easy (on a naturally aspirated engine. Making a good peak but with more power in your entire operating range is hard).

BUT, you need to factor drag into your energy calculations. If you add up energy deployed, you need to subtract it from energy consumed for comparative purposes, and that doesn’t even factor in turning that power consumed into downforce / grip.

If you look at terminal speeds over the last 35 years, they’re relatively the same. The current cars just take all that extra power and convert it to downforce, and that’s ultimately why they’re faster.

Emphasizing the role of aerodynamic drag is meaningless. In fact, every 10 horsepower increase in engine power can bring about a 0.2 second improvement in lap time. We all saw the effect of the additional 17 horsepower advantage that Mercedes' overboosted engine gained in 2021.

[wvkc9nhe]

The best way to understand the usefulness of the PU is to do a calculation of the "Average" power output of the PU over the race distance. I suspect this is where Honda does the damage to the competition, based on what they said last season and the changes they made for this season.

I think the value of the Honda PU is being able to run higher ERS modes for longer than competitors. This gives an incredible advantage over a race distance as you have more energy to deploy in the race than the competition.

But from what I understand from Wazari-san's comments, in terms of pure ICE power, Honda is leading its competitors by 1%.

[Hoffman900]

Don't confuse peak bhp with the rest of the engine characteristics. Sometimes its best to sacrifice a bit of peak 'pub-talk' figures for a greater range of power over TV e whole rpm range.

I've seen a lot of road/track cars here in the UK where there has been 50-75bhp less and those cars are much faster than those with more power, due to a better overall 'average' power over the rpm range

This has always been the case.

Honda documented how shaving off 12hp off peak in 2006 for some mid range was faster around Monza, of all places.

We do all sorts of torque shaping work with our engines in real life. Making a big peak number is actually relative easy (on a naturally aspirated engine. Making a good peak but with more power in your entire operating range is hard).

BUT, you need to factor drag into your energy calculations. If you add up energy deployed, you need to subtract it from energy consumed for comparative purposes, and that doesn’t even factor in turning that power consumed into downforce / grip.

If you look at terminal speeds over the last 35 years, they’re relatively the same. The current cars just take all that extra power and convert it to downforce, and that’s ultimately why they’re faster.

Emphasizing the role of aerodynamic drag is meaningless. In fact, every 10 horsepower increase in engine power can bring about a 0.2 second improvement in lap time. We all saw the effect of the additional 17 horsepower advantage that Mercedes' overboosted engine gained in 2021.

Source / data to back this up?

[Wouter]

[Henk_v]

The best way to understand the usefulness of the PU is to do a calculation of the "Average" power output of the PU over the race distance. I suspect this is where Honda does the damage to the competition, based on what they said last season and the changes they made for this season.

I think the value of the Honda PU is being able to run higher ERS modes for longer than competitors. This gives an incredible advantage over a race distance as you have more energy to deploy in the race than the competition.

But from what I understand from Wazari-san's comments, in terms of pure ICE power, Honda is leading its competitors by 1%.

1% lead on a 100 seconds lap is one second/lap lead...