2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[organic]

Ferrari works fine on the soft, but go to the hard and all the lap time is gone, so that speaks for downforce limitations.

I don't think that follows. I'd say it's balance and/or suspension issues. Really they cannot use the tyres in the correct way

Argument is that the grip provided by the soft tyre masks the lack of DF. Go to a harder tyre and the lack of grip is evident. Not sure I believe it, but that's the proposed theory I have read.

I would say the performance of the car in high speed corners in qualifying at Bahrain and Jeddah where downforce is just required, they are fine in terms of overall downforce

[Venturiation]

I don't think that follows. I'd say it's balance and/or suspension issues. Really they cannot use the tyres in the correct way

Argument is that the grip provided by the soft tyre masks the lack of DF. Go to a harder tyre and the lack of grip is evident. Not sure I believe it, but that's the proposed theory I have read.

I would say the performance of the car in high speed corners in qualifying at Bahrain and Jeddah where downforce is just required, they are fine in terms of overall downforce

that's only thanks to soft tyres

charles said the car was perfect on balance and nothing more could be addded

they need to start working on the new concept

[SoulPancake13]

I don't think that follows. I'd say it's balance and/or suspension issues. Really they cannot use the tyres in the correct way

Argument is that the grip provided by the soft tyre masks the lack of DF. Go to a harder tyre and the lack of grip is evident. Not sure I believe it, but that's the proposed theory I have read.

I would say the performance of the car in high speed corners in qualifying at Bahrain and Jeddah where downforce is just required, they are fine in terms of overall downforce

Looking at it a bit more critically and with less emotion, Sainz's comments(as unreliable as I have found them to be in the past) speak to the tyre issue. They just have immense deg compared to the other teams. If in clean air you struggle with deg, following is impossible. Additionally, it confirms that pushing the car is not possible because the tyres heat up way too quickly. Maybe the pace of the car is fine, but it matters none if you have to hold back for deg purposes. Very disappointing that this issue has not been fixed.

[Venturiation]

they moved to redbull concept

[SoulPancake13]

they moved to redbull concept

Honestly, quite sad. Would have been great to see two different designs equally fast and compete.

[organic]

Argument is that the grip provided by the soft tyre masks the lack of DF. Go to a harder tyre and the lack of grip is evident. Not sure I believe it, but that's the proposed theory I have read.

I would say the performance of the car in high speed corners in qualifying at Bahrain and Jeddah where downforce is just required, they are fine in terms of overall downforce

that's only thanks to soft tyres

charles said the car was perfect on balance and nothing more could be addded

they need to start working on the new concept

Soft tyres don't give you best-in-field highspeed performance just from the grip of the tyre. They can clearly get the soft tyres working over 1 lap and in Jeddah they had them working for the entire stint. Then the pace evaporated on the Hard tyre. that doesn't speak to a downforce problem

[continuum16]

Ferrari works fine on the soft, but go to the hard and all the lap time is gone, so that speaks for downforce limitations.

I don't think that follows. I'd say it's balance and/or suspension issues. Really they cannot use the tyres in the correct way

Looking at this qualitatively, I'm inclined to agree that whatever they've done to their 2023 suspension is a major issue/contributor to deg. Across the first two races, two teams have really struggled with this: Ferrari and Haas. Haas less so in Jeddah but Bahrain was truly shocking for them. Ferrari not great in either. For the F1-75, deg was a weakness. Now it's a severe limitation.

Perhaps they can make whatever kind of discovery they made after France 2021. I would expect it to be not as simple as an aggressive setup with extreme camber/etc. which would give good one-lap pace at the expense of longevity.

[mzso]

I am still shocked at how good the car is at qualifying compared to the race though, it has to be a gigantic race pace problem to fall off that large of a cliff. Australia upgrades can hopefully take us beyond the AMR and Mercedes.

I would say, maybe they qualify with lot more wings and even more turned up PU. But the engine mode is supposed to be that same for qualifying and race. So I have no explanation.

[jambuka]

Changing the concept and going RB way would be a disaster. They already are so far ahead with the concept. Might as well pack up and not race for 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised they just give up and say we are going to focus on next year's car. Same old.

[LM10]

I’m fairly confident that this is not going to happen. Just smokes from Nugnes. The concept is fine.

[Xyz22]

Changing the concept and going RB way would be a disaster. They already are so far ahead with the concept. Might as well pack up and not race for 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised they just give up and say we are going to focus on next year's car. Same old.

I mean, there isn't a lot to do when you are over 1s behind.

When there is such a gap, it probably means the entire chassis is no good. Reminds me of 2019/2016. In 2019 they had an engine with an immense gap over the competition (especially in quali), which isn't the case now (or back in 2016).

[Alonsismo]

from the moment that you dont have a car with a stable rear, the car is not gonna be good.
when you have a stable rear, you can use all your engine power and push the throtle pedal really early on the corner.

but this ferrari have a unestable rear always, it is unestable with oversteer and with understeer.
that shows that the car is just bad in the chassis concept

[Vanja #66]

from the moment that you dont have a car with a stable rear, the car is not gonna be good.
when you have a stable rear, you can use all your engine power and push the throtle pedal really early on the corner.

but this ferrari have a unestable rear always, it is unestable with oversteer and with understeer.
that shows that the car is just bad in the chassis concept

Says who?

[LM10]

from the moment that you dont have a car with a stable rear, the car is not gonna be good.
when you have a stable rear, you can use all your engine power and push the throtle pedal really early on the corner.

but this ferrari have a unestable rear always, it is unestable with oversteer and with understeer.
that shows that the car is just bad in the chassis concept

Says who?

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

[Xyz22]

from the moment that you dont have a car with a stable rear, the car is not gonna be good.
when you have a stable rear, you can use all your engine power and push the throtle pedal really early on the corner.

but this ferrari have a unestable rear always, it is unestable with oversteer and with understeer.
that shows that the car is just bad in the chassis concept

Says who?

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

I don't know why there is talking about the concept when the F1 75 (based on this exact concept) was way faster. To me it seems the issue is not within the concept itself, but on the actual execution. For now, the SF 23 is just slow.

Let's see what happens in Melbourne.