2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[MTL79]

So what should be the next step, it seems the simulator is also not as accurate as they were expecting which surely must make it difficult to test concepts?

[Vanja #66]

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

The main concept "failure" for Ferrari and every other team is not running the car low enough, like RB. Ferrari was running the car very low in Bahrain, but this caused other balance issues. I suspect they overcorrected for Jeddah, now lacking downforce in corners despite bigger rear wing.

Hard tyre issue could point to an overcorrection of too much tyre heat-up, leading to insufficient heat-up like Hungary 2022. They clearly didn't expect that, so (along with very poor strategy decisions) all's not well in race operations dept.

[maxxer]

from the moment that you dont have a car with a stable rear, the car is not gonna be good.
when you have a stable rear, you can use all your engine power and push the throtle pedal really early on the corner.

but this ferrari have a unestable rear always, it is unestable with oversteer and with understeer.
that shows that the car is just bad in the chassis concept

Says who?

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

Actually all cars look to be pretty planted and willing to go in the right direction , race number 2 being a street circuit and i havent seen no mayor snaps on most, Ferrari might have to tweak power delivery abit because it wants to go ahead quicker then it can

[jambuka]

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

The main concept "failure" for Ferrari and every other team is not running the car low enough, like RB. Ferrari was running the car very low in Bahrain, but this caused other balance issues. I suspect they overcorrected for Jeddah, now lacking downforce in corners despite bigger rear wing.

Hard tyre issue could point to an overcorrection of too much tyre heat-up, leading to insufficient heat-up like Hungary 2022. They clearly didn't expect that, so (along with very poor strategy decisions) all's not well in race operations dept.

They have not been able to dial into the suspension introduced correctly yet. Charles was the only car bouncing in FP1, FP2 on the straights. I am assuming they raised the height to eliminate it. At this point they should focus more on race pace setup and forget about qualifying(except tracks where impossible to overtake).

[AR3-GP]

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

The main concept "failure" for Ferrari and every other team is not running the car low enough, like RB. Ferrari was running the car very low in Bahrain, but this caused other balance issues. I suspect they overcorrected for Jeddah, now lacking downforce in corners despite bigger rear wing.

Hard tyre issue could point to an overcorrection of too much tyre heat-up, leading to insufficient heat-up like Hungary 2022. They clearly didn't expect that, so (along with very poor strategy decisions) all's not well in race operations dept.

They have not been able to dial into the suspension introduced correctly yet. Charles was the only car bouncing in FP1, FP2 on the straights. I am assuming they raised the height to eliminate it. At this point they should focus more on race pace setup and forget about qualifying(except tracks where impossible to overtake).

Excellent observation on your part and from Vanja.

I too could not figure how Ferrari went from arguably second fastest in Bahrain, certainly well clear of mercedes, to being unable to trouble Mercedes in Jeddah.

The simple explanation is probably ride height.

Do I think Ferrari have the fastest car right now? No. Did the car show much more performance in Bahrain? Yes. Could they show up in Australia and be in front of Mercedes, and battling AMR (in Leclerc's hands), there's every opportunity.

It's tempting to over-react to the result in Jeddah, (with regards to Mercedes and AMR) but I'm not sure much changed. They are essentially fighting within a track specific +-3 tenths with those other cars.

With respect to RB is a different matter and they will need upgrades to make a dent in that gap.

[Juzh]

Leclerc's P2 lap from quali 1:28.420 - 2023 camera transmission is poor, very good job FOM, regressing every year. I cleaned up footage as best as possible
https://streamable.com/l7fm5f


2022 lap for comparison - 1:28.225
https://streamable.com/ze1yof

[Xyz22]

Leclerc's P2 lap from quali 1:28.420 - 2023 camera transmission is poor, very good job FOM, regressing every year. I cleaned up footage as best as possible
https://streamable.com/l7fm5f


2022 lap for comparison - 1:28.225
https://streamable.com/ze1yof

In quali trim it seems the car is capable of producing a similar level of downforce despite having less drag, at least in high speed corners. It seems a bit weaker in terms of traction, where Leclerc last year was able to go on the gas quicker. Top speed is much higher, of course.

Again, this reminds me so much of the SF 90 that was just so weak in race configuration.

[codetower]

Do they want to fall into the same trap as Mercedes? Spend all year trying to make a concept work? Or should they just take the hit and change now?

What doesn’t make sense though is if they ARE going to change concept, why wait till next year? How will Mercedes do it this year within the Cap?

[JPBD1990]

To me it seems like a suspension issue. They changed front and rear for this season if I’m not mistaken?

We know the aerodynamic concept is sound because it’s the same as the F1-75. Yet we have massive tyre deg, poor traction, etc. it reeks of suspension… no?

[dialtone]

To me it seems like a suspension issue. They changed front and rear for this season if I’m not mistaken?

We know the aerodynamic concept is sound because it’s the same as the F1-75. Yet we have massive tyre deg, poor traction, etc. it reeks of suspension… no?

Yeah I think it's both suspension and floor. Suspension geometry might still not be right and their contact patch might still be smaller than the other teams which causes overheating. I'd love to see a lap with the infra red camera to compare.

[Xyz22]

From Federico Albano.

[Venturiation]

https://storage.googleapis.com/fp-media ... _MdT_1.jpg

From Federico Albano.

is this the only team to become slower than 2022? even mclaren is faster?

[Sevach]

Leclerc's P2 lap from quali 1:28.420 - 2023 camera transmission is poor, very good job FOM, regressing every year. I cleaned up footage as best as possible
https://streamable.com/l7fm5f


2022 lap for comparison - 1:28.225
https://streamable.com/ze1yof

Uber high speed corners got worst, mid-high improved slightly.
Noticeably worst through the esses, big improvement in straightline speed.

Keep in mind that Ferrari ran the SF-75 safely off the ground in this GP, it wasn't at a ride height that triggered porpoising.

One good news
https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-c ... e-comments

[wowgr8]

There has to be something terribly wrong with Ferrari's processes. These race pace issues have existed on and off since 2018. Mercedes and Red Bull on the other hand always know how to take care of the tyres over a race distance. Even when Mercedes were in the gutter early last year they didn't have excessive tyre wear. I remember years ago I read something about "dynamic test benches" in the Italian media, and that Merc & RB both have them but Ferrari don't.

The F1-75 started the year constantly losing races to Red Bull because of poor race pace, they fixed it with the Spain update but the balance was ruined by the TD. Ferrari had months to remedy the issues that came with the TD but all that improved was the straight line speed. I struggle to blame them too much because August was far too late for them to change car/floor concept.

All they can do now is toss this car in the bin and start from scratch with the RB concept which clearly works, but even that is complicated by the fact that they're trying to rebuild the technical structure. This team is a total mess right now. All that preaching about stability and we're right back to square one, just comical.

[Xyz22]

There has to be something terribly wrong with Ferrari's processes. These race pace issues have existed on and off since 2018. Mercedes and Red Bull on the other hand always know how to take care of the tyres over a race distance. Even when Mercedes were in the gutter early last year they didn't have excessive tyre wear. I remember years ago I read something about "dynamic test benches" in the Italian media, and that Merc & RB both have them but Ferrari don't.

The F1-75 started the year constantly losing races to Red Bull because of poor race pace, they fixed it with the Spain update but the balance was ruined by the TD. Ferrari had months to remedy the issues that came with the TD but all that improved was the straight line speed. I struggle to blame them too much because August was far too late for them to change car/floor concept.

All they can do now is toss this car in the bin and start from scratch with the RB concept which clearly works, but even that is complicated by the fact that they're trying to rebuild the technical structure. This team is a total mess right now. All that preaching about stability and we're right back to square one, just comical.

Can we please stop changing reality? Ferrari was slower in Imola and Miami where RB brought an important aero update + weight reduction upgrades.
There was no tyre consumption issue before the TD 039 which made the car simply slower and thus incapable of keeping up with the RB18.

In 2018 there were also no issues at all before the Singapore upgrade package that made the car slower instead of improving the performance.