Red Bull RB19

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
michl420
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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SiLo wrote:
17 Mar 2023, 15:53
organic wrote:
16 Mar 2023, 14:33
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Does this show how far the front of the floor can flex? Look how much lower the front of the bib is than the rest of the surrounding area, seems a huge difference. Unless I'm just imagining this because the surrounding areas all sit above the tunnels.
This front of bib appeares to be connected with a sort of hinge to the monocoque, so it can travel quite far but is obviously not fully assembled in this picture. But I imagine a travel up to 5 cm when it tuched a curb. It can be seen on several slowmotion videos.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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The one thing missing there is the spring canister (this is secured with the four studs in the upper surface).

As a side-note, this rigid fixturing of the canister means that the pivot must be internal (within the canister itself).
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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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How were they able to shrink the roll hoop and sidepod inlets this year? Would you say this is from powertrain advancements or optimizing radiators/ducting? Maybe both. The roll hoop looks about 25% smaller. Maybe they were playing it safe last year and oversized everything.
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Henk_v
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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As I elaborated a few pages ago;

Radiator flow = pressure difference (inlet to outlet) / Total airflow resistance.

Larger inlets give less resistance and maybe a bit more ram pressure.

Exiting in a lower pressure zone can decrease the need for ram pressure.

Optimizations in flow resistance can reduce the need for pressure difference.

Venturiation
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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Will pay for driveshaft photos :wink:
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ing.
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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One thing that hasn’t been mentioned (I think) is how the RB front suspension, with its highly skewed upper wishbone could be providing very good camber gain characteristics and so front grip. Apart from its aero function the front suspension upper wishbone especially will in effect be quite angled (higher outbound) if you consider that the effective upper link inner pivot is much lower than front upper wishbone fwd leg attachment. AM have similar geometry.

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Big Tea
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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ing. wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 15:55
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned (I think) is how the RB front suspension, with its highly skewed upper wishbone could be providing very good camber gain characteristics and so front grip. Apart from its aero function the front suspension upper wishbone especially will in effect be quite angled (higher outbound) if you consider that the effective upper link inner pivot is much lower than front upper wishbone fwd leg attachment. AM have similar geometry.
I wondered if there was any degree of flexibility there too. Just at the 'elbow' to absorb kicks.
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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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Do you think Red Bull is using some kind of technical novelty to be able to run their floor so close to the ground? Their cars are sparking a lot more than the others!

I think this is why they’re so fast this year…because of the low ride height which produces them tons more downforce and that gives them the flexibility to run small rear wings and in turn get higher top speeds!

Toto said at Bahrain that they can’t run their car so close to the ground because it will break the floor! How come? The 2023 rule changes came so that they can run their cars lower! They’re all using the same plank after all if that’s what keeping them from going lower…

Red Bull also doesn’t seem to run any rake at all this year!
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Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 22:50
Do you think Red Bull is using some kind of technical novelty to be able to run their floor so close to the ground? Their cars are sparking a lot more than the others!

I think this is why they’re so fast this year…because of the low ride height which produces them tons more downforce and that gives them the flexibility to run small rear wings and in turn get higher top speeds!

Toto said at Bahrain that they can’t run their car so close to the ground because it will break the floor! How come? The 2023 rule changes came so that they can run their cars lower! They’re all using the same plank after all if that’s what keeping them from going lower…

Red Bull also doesn’t seem to run any rake at all this year!
Ride height as measured by the reference plane(essentially the plank area) hasn't seem any rule changes, the diffuser throat and floor edges are higher.
It's certainly possible that teams knowing that the throat distance to the ground is increasing would attempt lowering the ride height.

The tough part is hitting the ground without getting negative effects.

AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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Sevach wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 23:23
AMG.Tzan wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 22:50
Do you think Red Bull is using some kind of technical novelty to be able to run their floor so close to the ground? Their cars are sparking a lot more than the others!

I think this is why they’re so fast this year…because of the low ride height which produces them tons more downforce and that gives them the flexibility to run small rear wings and in turn get higher top speeds!

Toto said at Bahrain that they can’t run their car so close to the ground because it will break the floor! How come? The 2023 rule changes came so that they can run their cars lower! They’re all using the same plank after all if that’s what keeping them from going lower…

Red Bull also doesn’t seem to run any rake at all this year!
Ride height as measured by the reference plane(essentially the plank area) hasn't seem any rule changes, the diffuser throat and floor edges are higher.
It's certainly possible that teams knowing that the throat distance to the ground is increasing would attempt lowering the ride height.

The tough part is hitting the ground without getting negative effects.
RB has been scraping the ground with the front of the plank for years and years. It's definitely their area of expertise.
A lion must kill its prey.

Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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AR3-GP wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 23:24


RB has been scraping the ground with the front of the plank for years and years. It's definitely their area of expertise.
Very true.

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Vanja #66
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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In my view, RB18 evolved into RB19 with just one important change - rake is practically gone, thus bringing the tunnel throat back to "intended" ride height (negating 10mm raise with 2023 rules). After this, other changes were details and improvements.

Everything else is built around the ability to ride as low as possible without too much wear on the plank. The entire floor must be structurally designed around this, I assume. The suspension is updated to support this, as well as provide its main function and provide optimal working window for the tyres.

I have a feeling RB team, lead by Newey, paid special attention to aligning all the ride height factors and bringing them to near equilibrium at all times. Tyre deformation and suspension travel are influenced not only by weight (lowest in Q, starting at near max in the race and dropping back low again) but now even more by effective floor throat height and resulting floor downforce values. Perez was 190kmh through T22 in Q, 165kmh in L3 and 175kmh in his fastest lap (less fuel, but Hard tyres). 190kmh means potentially 33% more downforce than at 165kmh, so almost 300kg more.

What happens with suspension travel at those speeds? Is the car already riding as low as possible? Or is there 5-10mm more travel available? How much does the car lower with those extra 300kg of downforce? If it goes lower, how much more downforce can the floor generate? How to keep the car level and prevent roll for optimal aerodynamic performance? And that's just the basic questions :lol:

Lot's of work went into refinement and understanding the setup and how to optimise the floor operation, no doubt. RB likely spent the most of their aero time making sure the floor performance is aligned with optimal ride height at all times, both in Q and race.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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Sevach
Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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These are rumors and speculation, so take it with a lot of salt.
The rumors said that last year Newey/Red Bull were one of the few teams that understood that porpoising could be a thing, so they aimed for a less peaky floor that could produce good downforce at various ride heights.

I suspect this season with the throat and edges forcibly being raised RBR figured they could get a lot more aggressive and it wouldn't be an issue.