US lite truck industry literally breaking down

[Ray]

The NASCAR people don't like Toyota in there hill billy racing because toyota can make over variable valve timing that works and the "big" 3 can't quite figure that trick out yet

I like your obvious lack intelligence calling NASCAR fans, engineers, team owners, and everyone else hillbillies when most of them aren't even from a 'hillbilly' region. The current 3 time in a row champion is from El Cajon California. Not to mention hillbilly is one word. If you're going to insult a whole group of about 50 million people at least get the terminology right. And even more obvious that you are of below average intelligence because we've had VVT on alot of our cars for some time now. Ever heard of the Viper? You know, the car that hold the street legal record around the Nurburgring currently? Go troll somewhere else.

[Belatti]

1

Steam engines
The first variable valve timing systems came into existence in the nineteenth century on steam engines. Stephenson valve gear, as used on early steam locomotives, supported variable cutoff, that is, changes to the time at which the admission of steam to the cylinders is cut off during the power stroke.

2

Aircraft
Some versions of the Bristol Jupiter radial engine of the early 1920s incorporated variable valve timing gear, mainly to vary the inlet valve timing in connection with higher compression ratios.

3

Automotive use

Fiat was the first auto manufacturer to patent a functional automotive variable valve timing system which included variable lift. Developed by Giovanni Torazza in the late 1960s, the system used hydraulic pressure to vary the fulcrum of the cam followers (US Patent 3,641,988). The hydraulic pressure changed according to engine speed and intake pressure. The typical opening variation was 37%.

In September 1975, General Motors (GM) patented a system intended to vary valve lift. GM was interested in throttling the intake valves in order to reduce emissions. This was done by minimizing the amount of lift at low load to keep the intake velocity higher, thereby atomizing the intake charge.

Alfa Romeo was the first manufacturer to use a variable valve timing system in production cars (US Patent 4,231,330). The 1980 Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 L had a mechanical VVT system in SPICA fuel injected cars sold in the USA.

After all that, Honda appeared with VVT in 1983, in a REV motorcycle engine in a CBR400F.

Japanese are not big inventors in the automotive world, they are rather big innovators. They mature in the 80s while they took advantage from others mistakes.

[Ray]

Not to mention, peteskar, the Toyota doesn't even use a VVT capable or designed engine in NASCAR, Nationwide, or the Truck series, or the NHRA in Funny Car. If you'd also think for a second, you might figure out that in NASCAR VVT is strictly forbidden. Go troll somewhere else and keep your bigotry off this forum. Just because you don't like NASCAR don't be a damn bigot towards another group of people, and it might benefit you to learn about something you insult so you don't make yourself look stupid.

[safeaschuck]

The NASCAR people don't like Toyota in there hill billy racing because toyota can make over variable valve timing that works and the "big" 3 can't quite figure that trick out yet

I used to think like that so it's hard to be too judgemental on you Pete, but the American racing industry I have rubbed up against, mainly NASCAR is not like that at all. I've heard a few stories about big characters on the U.S. racing scene who dress like cowboys and probably wear a white pillowcase on their heads at the weekend, but they are mainly rumours, F1 actually had a documented case of the head of the whole shooting match NOT dressing people up in Nazi uniforms for his twisted sex games.

So who actually are the mouth breathers in this case? all of us, none of us or just a select few from all over society?

The Yanks seem to have a 'can do' attitude, obstacles are demolished before them (no war jokes, I'm serious) and best of all they have a straight talking approach which saves so much time, can be a great trust builder and sadly seems to be almost discouraged elsewhere(? only opinion), probably because our skins are not thick enough or the P.C. brigade think the truth could in some way damage our self esteem.
They do get things wrong but so does everyone, if your doing twice as much as the next guy and only making a few more mistakes your percentage is way better. The Japanese tend to procrastinate and as such are seen to make very few mistakes, the social consequences of making a mistake for an employee in Asia should not be overlooked, and old Europe seems to be somewhere in the middle.

Anyway, if it was just a joke hopefully we can all move on, if not, now you know.

[Carlos]

Among the US automakers current incarnations GM is interesting to watch. A new web site at fastlane.gmblogs called 'thelab' invites comment and exchange of ideas with GM designers on new vehicle developments. Make a comment and the designer of the vehicle project weighs in with a reply. Currently two minimalist designs, a car and a truck; are up with videos and design storyboards.
For the curious, might be worth a giggle.

What my favourite US auto insider/commentator "autoextremist" thought of the lab idea:

"Our growing national obsessive compulsion to “share” everything isn’t helping either. How we as a society went down this road of thinking that informing everybody about everything in our lives - no matter how mundane or pathetic - is not only acceptable but cool will be fodder for another column, but it seems that this affliction has grabbed hold of one car company in particular, and it’s not pretty.
GM is taking this corporate soul searching stuff to a new, unprecedented level, and it’s getting ridiculous. They’re blogging, they’re sharing, they’re airing dirty laundry, they’re engaging in public hand-wringing and mea culpas - in short, the “new” GM is bordering on becoming the annoying neighbor at the party who just won’t shut up.
GM’s latest effort involves something called “the Lab,” a website on gmblogs where GM designers will “share” some of their designs so that the community “out there” can hold hands, pontificate and provide instant feedback that will be better than the traditional clinics. Or something like that.
Really, boys and girls? You actually believe this is a good idea? Really?"

http://autoextremist.com


http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/
http://thelab.gmblogs.com/

Also: here's a story on Gm's "what to do with Opel, who gets to buy."
http://blogs.reuters.com/commentaries/2 ... over-opel/

[Carlos]

What's GM making that is worth buying? Even though I've always liked the idea of 1000cc V8's at 12,000RPM... it's hard not to admire the new Camero ... 426 BHP V8 in a relatively compact package for $30,000 USD.

426@30K

[Shrek]

The reason the truck industry is falling is because more people are going to the city thus they don't need a truck to drive around where as the farmers around here need a truck tha can pull a stump out of the ground or haul a bedload of concrete or something. They pretty much need a truck that is reliable and can haul stuff more than being comfortable inside the cab

[mx_tifoso]

Thanks Dave and Shrek, for repeating very obvious ideas once more.

[jon-mullen]

What my favourite US auto insider/commentator "autoextremist" thought of the lab idea:

"Our growing national obsessive compulsion to “share” everything isn’t helping either. How we as a society went down this road of thinking that informing everybody about everything in our lives - no matter how mundane or pathetic - is not only acceptable but cool will be fodder for another column, but it seems that this affliction has grabbed hold of one car company in particular, and it’s not pretty.
GM is taking this corporate soul searching stuff to a new, unprecedented level, and it’s getting ridiculous. They’re blogging, they’re sharing, they’re airing dirty laundry, they’re engaging in public hand-wringing and mea culpas - in short, the “new” GM is bordering on becoming the annoying neighbor at the party who just won’t shut up.

I agree with the author. US youth/consumer culture has put a dangerously large emphasis on peer approval, even for the tiniest little things now. Mark Bauerlein's book The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Out Future (Or, Don't Trust Anyone Under 30) is a pretty good send-up of the situation. He argues that the marketing campaign begun in the 50s & 60s aimed towards youths has finally just toppled over into letting youths validate themselves and reserving judgement in favor of relativism. (synopsis mine). It's going to be embarrassing when the baby boomers start retiring and no one here knows how to do anything that isn't a service sector job.

Which of course brings us to GM.

Most people that I know that own lite duty pick up trucks own them because they need them for work. There's no doubt that some people get them just to look cool or because they think they're a macho truck guy. However I think the problem with GM's lineup has been and still is the SUVs, some of which are effing FWD! Tell me that's not just for show. They produce something like 19 different SUVs that sit on the lots and then tell us that that's what Americans want to drive. They were fine while the militarized arm of American business was ensuring cheap gas, but even then GM's marketing was making a concerted effort to tell people to buy SUVs. If they want some input on what kinds of cars to build they should either do a proper survey or just look at Toyota's lineup.

And I'm sorry but I can't mention Toyota without mentioning that there's a plant ~30 minutes away from me that employs a ton of people in the area, most of whom have a college degree and employment there is very competitive. I've heard of people making 80K USD after ten years. People loved GM when it could pull that off but the days when their manufacturing model worked are dead and gone.

[Shrek]

Thanks Dave and Shrek, for repeating very obvious ideas once more.

sorry what i guess what i was trying to get at is i'm tired of people getting a certain truck just because it has greater gas milage than the rest of the trucks and not looking at other things

[ISLAMATRON]

Why are you worried about what kind of truck other people are buying? Or why they choose to buy said truck.

[jon-mullen]

Anybody seen the new GM commercial where they claim to have repaid their debt to the American taxpayer?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSNPFVLIWjI[/youtube]


Turns out they were massaging the truth just a little bit...

NYT: At GM, Repaying Taxpayers with Their Own Cash

I just wonder how much that commercial cost and if we can ever get THAT money back.

[WhiteBlue]

Anybody seen the new GM commercial where they claim to have repaid their debt to the American taxpayer?


Turns out they were massaging the truth just a little bit...

NYT: At GM, Repaying Taxpayers with Their Own Cash

I just wonder how much that commercial cost and if we can ever get THAT money back.

Wow, how about this from the source:

“Much of it will never be repaid,” Mr. Grassley added. “The Congressional Budget Office estimates that taxpayers will lose around $30 billion on G.M.”

(Taxpayers still own $2.1 billion in preferred stock of G.M. and almost 61 percent of its common equity.)

GM must think the US tax payers are a bunch of wankers.

[Ray]

GM must think the US tax payers are a bunch of wankers.

More like the US Congressman and other elected representatives. Everyone is applauding this BS campaign full of lies and like to commend GM for turning around, but with their bankruptcy they didn't have to pay off the debt they already had. What's even more BS is the illegal use of the banking industry and the creating of funds they don't have the authority for or the money itself. This is blatant spitting in the face of the American people, and the flaunting of the fact that they can get away with it time and again. I hate this government, and I wish that people would wake the hell up. What's going to happen when this happens again? They've already done it with the rail industry years ago, AMTRAK is a joke, and this WILL happen again. Idiots point at Capitalism as the reason it all happened and this is a lie, the President doesn't have the authority to decide what industries fail or succeed and the fact that TWO Presidents have made that decisions proves the lie that this is the effect of Capitalism. True capitalism would have seen them fail.

[jon-mullen]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you Ray. Our government has been propping up this economic system ("laissez-faire capitalism") from the time it became obvious that it was meant to collapse under its own weight. If you think this is government intervention, what do you call sending out the National Guard to massacre strikers? The Haymarket Riot? The Seattle General Strike? The Ludlow Massacre? That famous ruling about the 1st Amendment that you can stop someone from "yelling fire in a crowded theater" was applied to a guy who was peacefully running for president himself, working within the democratic system. It's not new, it was around long before FDR or LBJ. Meanwhile the state with the highest membership in the socialist party was--dig this--Oklahoma. Not exactly your hoighty-toighty liberal elite, is it? Marxism is a VERY easy sell to a down-trodden, poor population.

And the charge flying around that Obama's some kind of socialist--give me a break. He's just trying to do what every other president has done in times like these, prop up the middle class so you don't get a genuine revolution. Blacks in this country were only given some shred of citizenship when the establishment realized that MLK Jr. and Malcolm X were starting to go commie and between the Panthers and the SDS the whole thing could reach critical mass. So they let just a few more people into the middle class, gave them just a few more rights, quieted the USSR's criticism of our race relations, and the problem disappeared.

The wealth gap since then has continued to grow exponentially. Propping up big business is what our government has been committed to since the Industrial Revolution. The system would've collapsed a long long time ago and all this arguing over GM and Goldman/Sachs never would've happened. Deregulation and letting failing companies go into freefall at this point will just leave us all without jobs and accelerate the process of filtering capital to those who already have it. And then, when people can't feed their families, they don't have health care, and government is clearly on the side of the rich, Marxism will be an easy sell again. Bottom line, if you want Communist revolution, vote Palin/Romney in 2012.