Looks like the 40m euro budget cap is going ahead.

[noname]

(...) How many Honda engineers lost their jobs under the old system? how about SAR?

did Brawn build a new team or continued with existing one ?

it was not the first team who left F1, many others failed in the past. they just had not been good enough. it's happening everyday, not only in F1. some companies are falling, some are rising. that's how the business is working. even GM fall down and it was not the end of the world.

and I do not know any law limiting companies in their spendings, except common sense.

(...) This is upto a 200% decrease in spendature. (...)

check it again, pls

[Giblet]

That which is bloating must release pressure, or explode.

Honda exploded. If Toyota was not on board with the DDD, their cars would be typically mediocre, and they would likely not continue after this year, or even this year.

At least Honda proved something that nobody wants to hear. The Brawn GP car proves that unfettered spending, and constantly picking sources from other teams, and 18+months of development time make the quickest car.

[Conceptual]

That which is bloating must release pressure, or explode.

Honda exploded. If Toyota was not on board with the DDD, their cars would be typically mediocre, and they would likely not continue after this year, or even this year.

At least Honda proved something that nobody wants to hear. The Brawn GP car proves that unfettered spending, and constantly picking sources from other teams, and 18+months of development time make the quickest car.

Anyone care to speclate as to how much reverse engineering of other teams' cars goes into new car development? Like what percent of total manhours is spent analyzing pictures, videos, audio, 3d models of other teams' machinery?

That would be the subject of a great story if Scarbs has some info!

[Mr Satay]

so, it looks like the FIA isnt happy that FOTA apparently wants to "take control" of the rules and commercial rights of Formula 1.

Whats so bad about this? The teams know better then the FIA what goes on in a team, on track, all the logistics and what not to run a Formula 1 team as well as go racing.

Bernie was right, this is all just about power. For the first time ever all the teams are united and have voiced that they have had enough of the FIA chopping and changing everything to their liking. They (the FIA) didnt like this, and have pushed them away, the biggest mistake they could make.

So, break away championship is looking likely, and mind you, not that bad!

Lets consider one thing, if the break away happens and they cannot use tracks currently in contract with F1, itl be even better!

We can see races back at

Silverstone
Hockenheim (i doubt this track will get another contract in the coming years)
Imola
Magny Cours
Indianapolis
Montreal
Buenos aires
Jerez
Adelaide! (i prefer albert park but hell, adelaide is still awesome!)
TI Circuit Aida (japanese track, look this up its pretty special!)
A1 (it wasent compelatly knocked down wasent it? if so, rebuilt it!)

and tracks liek Zandvoort,

God knows, itl be F1 like it used to be, at GOOD RACE TRACKS!

[PlatinumZealot]

40 million budget for the car only right?
I think it is a good move.

[ISLAMATRON]

40 million budget for the car only right?
I think it is a good move.

Well it might be 40 mil lbs overall now since the FOTA teams might be out... the concessions for the drivers & engines & marketing were made for the FOTA teams.

[Giblet]

with 40 mil overall, I expect the hospitality area for new teams to look like this.

[James_graham]

Hi All,

I will have to get the source but I am pretty sure engineers salaries are cover by the budget cap, (I remember reeading somewhere that one purpose solution was to enable teams to take a big player, like newey out of the cap) All redundancies are not covered by the budget cap!

For the 200m spend this is about half what the big teams spent this year (estimated 400m and williams in 2008 season had a budget of 300m)!

On the other hand most teams had to let people go this year so I dont know how much money they all have!

For me though you can't have something to be the pinacle of motorsport with so many restrictions on it! Even ferrari admitted that this year the car was not as good as previous years (ie not as good as 2008) when the F60 was launched!

However one good thing about curtailing spending would be the introduction of new teams, without forward thinkers like Colin Chapman and Tyrell we would still be racing forward engined cars with no aerodynamics!

[hulmerist]

no way did williams spent 300m in 2008

[James_graham]

I had a lecture from an engineer at Uni and thats where I got the number!

Not really suprised to be honest as they have a massive amount of development and 500 plus people ie full scale wind tunnels!

[hulmerist]

well it's wrong, he must've mispoke

there is no way williams had 300million to spend in 2008, i'm far from an expert or anything but i reckon they're operating around the £100 million mark, something like that

i'm sure someone could give a more educated figure, but £300million is probably what honda and toyota were/are throwing at it

[bidong]

i highly think a breakaway series wont happen, unless they jump to lemans and try to breakaway there with LeMans cars designed using F1 Research Equipment, i'm sure it's physically similar (the equipment), but the computations and approach should be radically different.

If they dont jump to LeMans i guess most manufacturer teams will exit (except Ferrari, because if Bernie says, they have a contract... THEY DO! and Ferrari is just talking about it was breaking their "idea of f1", reworded like "spirit of the rules." so in courts, yeah they will lose meaning they have to stick.

Manufacturers will then supply these new teams with chassis and engine. some might buy some might create.

The next FIA Presidential election, do you honestly think MAX would remain there? with all this sh*t going down at him??? this is ultra bad publicity right before the next term starts and with teams exiting, its not really favorable.

When Max is out, teams will try to get this new president on their side, trying to "help" the FIA rebuild what was F1. Buy out some teams, be back in the sport, without loss of representation.

[THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, other opinions are welcomed! ]

If this doesn't happen, then hopefully the FIA changes their mind and remain with 09 rules with a 200M budget cap. with KERS bought from Mercedes. hehehehe Go Hamilton-Rosberg 2010

[James_graham]

Ha don't want to argue! Just something I heard from a williams engineer!

However take a look at an article I just found

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/09/22/t ... get-4456m/

May suprise you. Thing I Can't quite understand from this is that Toro Rosso, Red Bull, and Williams have a similar budget and toro rosso didn't even make a car. Doesn't make sense to me.

[hulmerist]

williams = $160 mill = £100mill....

how does that surprise me...if anything if just proves me right

[u401768]

bidong - i had a very simaler thought as well

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:45 am

I do have 1 recurring thought about all this...is this as simple as the FOTA teams will not enter, causing a massive rift in the FIA and as they are having an election this year anyway it comes forward and Max gets deposed and the FIA get a new leader?

during all this time F1 will languish (no FOTA teams i doubt many of the new teams will still be interested) till the new president comes in and the FOTA teams all come back in to play with a new concord agreement, some sort of cost control, and peace.

Everyone wins except for Max? FOTA get F1 back to where they want it, Bernie keeps solvent, and the new teams get the F1 series they wanted race in mostly (but they will probably still be along way down on money) and the FIA look a lot better then they do at the moment.

The only other casualty i could see is Williams, but i think they are going to loose no mater what happens which will be very sad, as i expect they will loose they engine no mater what just become more of a bit player.