Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Tomba wrote:And even more, which tyres are they going to use? Slicks I think is beyond any doubt, but which supplier? Bridgestone will likely be pushed seriously to not agree a deal with FOTA.
Hmm, hadn't thought of that...
Its firestone that supply the IRL isn't it? So they are out too....
Michelin might want to get back in, they weren't exactly seeing eye-to-eye with the FIA when they left...
Goodyear is another option I guess - would they have the moulds from 1997 kicking around? (which is what bridgestone were going back to next year!)
Something left field to think about - FOTA have as Im led to believe have had talks with Dorna who run MotoGP re freight/transport/circuits/TV logistics etc etc - logistically its all conceivable as most FOTA teams have people in the various teams who manage this part of the operation. What if Dorna & FOTA were to present a duel series where MotoGP and its smaller classes raced on Saturday and the (Grand Prix World Championship for want of a better name) raced on Sunday - an absolute massive audience on both TV and bums on seats would be assured - just a thought
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson
The Formula One Team's Association (FOTA) has sent a letter to the FIA calling for urgent compromise in the row over next year's rules to prevent the possibility of a breakaway series.
According to a report from Reuters news agency, the teams have offered to sign up to a version of the proposed budget cap, with provisos included, and have asked to extend the entry lock-off deadline to July 1 to allow time for further negotiations and sign a new Concorde Agreement.
"The time has come when, in the interests of the sport, we must all seek to compromise and bring an urgent conclusion to the protracted debate regarding the 2010 world championship," Reuters quoted the letter as saying.
"We hope that you will consider that this letter represents significant movement by the teams, all of whom have clearly stated a willingness to commit to the sport until the end of 2012.
"We would therefore strongly but respectfully submit that you consider these proposals and seek to avoid the potential departure from Formula One of some important teams.
"Now is the time to find a reasonable and rapid solution to the outstanding issues."
FOTA says in the letter that its teams could sign up to a version of the budget cap, or what it calls the 'resource restriction proposal' so long as it is independently policed and universal for all. In return for accepting this compromise the current teams would assist new entries with engine supplies and technical assistance.
"We detect... that a solution might be possible based on the FOTA resource restriction proposal but with measures introduced," the letter said.
"We would propose in this respect that we nominate a top firm of independent accountants who will devise an audit methodology that will be implemented by all of the teams.
"This methodology and the annual results would be disclosed to the FIA... we can see no reason why such a system based on objective verification of compliance would not be acceptable to all parties."
I have to say, I'm somewhat disappointed.
Tell Max and Bernie to go get stuffed - why stick another band-aid over the wound when you can get a proper fix by having a new properly run series?
Chaparral wrote:Something left field to think about - FOTA have as Im led to believe have had talks with Dorna who run MotoGP re freight/transport/circuits/TV logistics etc etc - logistically its all conceivable as most FOTA teams have people in the various teams who manage this part of the operation. What if Dorna & FOTA were to present a duel series where MotoGP and its smaller classes raced on Saturday and the (Grand Prix World Championship for want of a better name) raced on Sunday - an absolute massive audience on both TV and bums on seats would be assured - just a thought
Just a very damn good thought!!
Are all the current MotoGP tracks fit to stage F1 events? (Thinking of places like Assen or Phillip Island)
If not, there still could be super-weekends where F1 and MotoGP combine on common tracks in the calendars.
The more this drama drags on, the more likely it appears that the FOTA members will not be racing in Formula One next year. And once again, this crisis grows more menacing. Max Mosley has tightend the noose, and given FOTA members little choices. Right now, the only option they appear to have is to either accept Max's new rules with a budget limit, or walk away from from Formula One.
This decision will come soon, and the FOTA team members can start planning for next year. If it is a breakaway series, then they do have enough time to cobble up a series. Most likely, there is a committee set up to plan for this scenario, and they already have many of the major points figured out. Timewise, there are nine months before March arrives, lots of time.
In fact, what better group of people and organizations to make this happen? Within the FOTA eight, there are many very capable people who can contribute their expertise. For instance, Red Bull have marketing figured out. Flavio Briatore, despite his swaggering bravado, is one very smart dude with contacts world-wide. Ferrari posess incredible influence, they can drag a lot of organizations along with them. Bridgestone, Marlboro, Shell, to name a few. Personally, I have no doubt they can make it happen.
And do they have to be as successful (in their first year)as Formula One in drawing in the fans and TV audience? No, they don't have to. No matter how much they succeed or fail a breakaway series will draw revenue away from Bernie. He and his business associates will see a marked drop in attendance figures, and revenue. That would be unacceptable, and something will definitely be done about it. Knowing Bernie, he will try to cover his bases by being the middleman for both Formula One and the breakaway. I just hope the people in the breakaway realize Bernie brings a lot of negatives to the deal, and they would be better off in the long term by rejecting Mr Ecclestone.
If there is a breakaway, this new organization will be able to build on their experience, and avoid the pitfalls and mistakes they made in the past. For them, it's a new beginning.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.
kilcoo316 wrote:
Tell Max and Bernie to go get stuffed - why stick another band-aid over the wound when you can get a proper fix by having a new properly run series?
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but do you know the history of IRL/CART in the US?
That took 12 years to fix after the split.
As mentioned above by Dave, it seems inevitable.
Ferrari cannot back down now without losing a lot of face. Will the FIA come after them after a split?
BMW, Renault and Toyota are maybe looking for a reason to leave and then blame the FIA.
You have to feel sorry for McLaren. Neutered by the FIA and now seemingly helpless (on the face of it anyway. Who knows what they are doing behind the scenes). Their road car business is at a tender stage also.
Last edited by monkeyboy1976 on 17 Jun 2009, 14:15, edited 1 time in total.
Seems that FOTA is trying a last attempt to reach a compromise with FIA. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76263
I think a compromise is still the best solution, the idea of a breakaway series is truly fascinating to me, but the risk of seeing both the series fail in a couple of years is too high.
DaveKillens wrote:The more this drama drags on, the more likely it appears that the FOTA members will not be racing in Formula One next year. And once again, this crisis grows more menacing. Max Mosley has tightend the noose, and given FOTA members little choices. Right now, the only option they appear to have is to either accept Max's new rules with a budget limit, or walk away from from Formula One.
This decision will come soon, and the FOTA team members can start planning for next year. If it is a breakaway series, then they do have enough time to cobble up a series. Most likely, there is a committee set up to plan for this scenario, and they already have many of the major points figured out. Timewise, there are nine months before March arrives, lots of time.
In fact, what better group of people and organizations to make this happen? Within the FOTA eight, there are many very capable people who can contribute their expertise. For instance, Red Bull have marketing figured out. Flavio Briatore, despite his swaggering bravado, is one very smart dude with contacts world-wide. Ferrari posess incredible influence, they can drag a lot of organizations along with them. Bridgestone, Marlboro, Shell, to name a few. Personally, I have no doubt they can make it happen.
And do they have to be as successful (in their first year)as Formula One in drawing in the fans and TV audience? No, they don't have to. No matter how much they succeed or fail a breakaway series will draw revenue away from Bernie. He and his business associates will see a marked drop in attendance figures, and revenue. That would be unacceptable, and something will definitely be done about it. Knowing Bernie, he will try to cover his bases by being the middleman for both Formula One and the breakaway. I just hope the people in the breakaway realize Bernie brings a lot of negatives to the deal, and they would be better off in the long term by rejecting Mr Ecclestone.
If there is a breakaway, this new organization will be able to build on their experience, and avoid the pitfalls and mistakes they made in the past. For them, it's a new beginning.
I hate to see it, but FOTA will cave and Max will remain in power. He'll give 10-20%; they will compromiose the reat of the way.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar wrote:I hate to see it, but FOTA will cave and Max will remain in power. He'll give 10-20%; they will compromiose the reat of the way.
I believe that whatever will be the outcome of the ongoing row, there are few possibilities that max will survive to this mess.
If FOTA teams decide to stay in F1 maybe they can push with more weight for a radical change in the FIA governance.
I am not sure about this. Have they really written this letter because previously, this same FIA has leaked every single letter in its entirety and reporters or sites have quoted directly from said letters. Now everyone is not quoting Reuters the source (rather than the FIA). Who knows it could be a ploy by the FIA to find an excuse to extend the deadline I think someone mention this would happen so that its too late for the teams to start setting up a new series. I am still hoping against all hope that FOTA dont fold.
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..
The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.
Seems that FIA hasn't ruled out a last-hour compromise with FOTA, based on an "ad interim" extension of the 1998 Concorde agreement for the time needed for reaching a new one.
I welcome the idea of a compromise, but I'm always fearing a trap by Mosley, they can buy the loyalty of one of the new teams to sink all the projects of a more open governance in F1.
The offer today from the FIA gives nothing. Other than a promise to discuss budget caps and a 2009 concorde in future.
Mosley wrote: "We therefore propose that you accept the 2010 rules, as published, which we agreed with you last year. If necessary, these can be revised with the above governance procedures in due course."
If the teams agree to this then they are putting a massive amount of trust in Mosley. Can anyone see this happening?
www.grandprix.com wrote:FIA President Max Mosley has responded to FOTA by saying that the FIA will talk about changes in the Concorde Agreement and systems of governance, after the teams make their entries unconditional. This is not thought likely to influence the teams to sign up
Chaparral wrote:Something left field to think about - FOTA have as Im led to believe have had talks with Dorna who run MotoGP re freight/transport/circuits/TV logistics etc etc - logistically its all conceivable as most FOTA teams have people in the various teams who manage this part of the operation. What if Dorna & FOTA were to present a duel series where MotoGP and its smaller classes raced on Saturday and the (Grand Prix World Championship for want of a better name) raced on Sunday - an absolute massive audience on both TV and bums on seats would be assured - just a thought
Just a very damn good thought!!
Are all the current MotoGP tracks fit to stage F1 events? (Thinking of places like Assen or Phillip Island)
If not, there still could be super-weekends where F1 and MotoGP combine on common tracks in the calendars.
it'll never happen, 19 bikes in motogp, 41 bikes in moto 2, 30-40 bikes in 125 cc, that's about 100 bikes, plus 20 odd gp cars, hospitality, motorhomes, trucks etc etc
