Red Bull RB19

[aleallievi]

Very interesting theory by this Italian YouTuber. It seems that the rear suspension’s top wishbone could be dynamically adjusted under (rear wing) load thanks to a clever sliding mechanism. This could change the camber and caster angle at high vs low speeds.

https://youtu .be/mmkhiOW8wDU

Interesting theory of his but I have doubts about it.

It would violate some of the regulations surrounding moveable aero in addition to some un-physical/non-existent degrees of freedom that the author claims are present.


Here's a picture of last year's Alpha Tauri which has very similar detail, but you can see that the "pins" at the back are more likely to be a locating feature. The cradle itself is rigidly mounted to the top of the gearbox carrier (and since AT and Rb are sharing this...). For many reasons including the rigidity requirements of a structure like this and the picture below (*of the AT), I doubt this structure is "sliding".

https://i.postimg.cc/xC6H6zSk/image.png

+1 I also would not expect any significant deflection from this structure. Beautiful machined piece though. 95% of that block turned into swarf. And it supports upward of 500kg(?).

The rear facing stem/pin is the mounting point for the exhaust pipe. Note the flange visible inside the saddle here on the RB18:

https://www.motorsport-total.com/img/20 ... 267069.jpg
Source: motorsport-total.com

Thank you both for the thoughtful responses and for the visuals. I agree that this quite an adventurous theory; specifically what Ugo thought could be the top “rail” of the mechanism seem to just be holding “pins”. To my untrained eye, however, I’d say that the RB19 mechanism, compared to that in the AT picture, does seem to allow for an additional degree of freedom, in that the top suspension arms look like they can pivot in their fixation to the cradle. Also, the bottom “rail” mechanism that Ugo highlights would in principle support this pivoting motion. I don’t see this rail in the AT, though it may just be a red herring altogether. Maybe, rather than an adaptive suspension this could be “just” a sophisticated mechanism for track-specific tuning of the rear suspension? It would be interesting to get top views of the RB19 across races, or even within a race to confirm.

[vorticism]

As @Henry suggests rather than a solid link (which I had originally thought it may be - for ride height adjustments), I believe that it contains a heavily preloaded spring, so that at a given vertical load you get a drop in ride height.
The torsion spring is then located in a bushing/bearing to allow rotation (such that the two springs act against each other.
If you tried this with a conventional system (torsion springs, t-bar ARB) you would end up with some fairly horrible kinematics, by ‘ditching’ a conventional ARB - replacing with a near-solid link, you retain single-wheel bump/rebound (and are able to control both sides with a single damper), take roll to near-zero levels - making a very stable platform for the rear diffuser operation.
It is really the opposite to the classic Gordon Murray theory of not running a rear ARB (maximising traction) and putting all of your roll-control on the front axle.
We never have seen a picture of the front damper arrangement, but the upper ‘bow’ that appears to link both hubs (retained by two vertical mounts) could function as both helper spring and/or ARB.

+1 good point about the potential anti-roll function of the longbow. Was thinking recently they could reduce the fixing points to one in the middle, like a topside keel, although it would then translate roll force directly like a teeter-totter; pro roll. vov

Another odd feature of this mystery link (probably still there on the RB19 considering how little the car has changed) is that it is mounted at a slight angle. Not perfectly horizontal, and one side has a rose joint while the other has a split clamp/collar. Why would there be such asymmetry in rocker arm height? And installation method. Pretty sure we never see this on heave and roll devices.

Pic of the rb18/At03 gearbox and rear suspension area.

[Stu]

As @Henry suggests rather than a solid link (which I had originally thought it may be - for ride height adjustments), I believe that it contains a heavily preloaded spring, so that at a given vertical load you get a drop in ride height.
The torsion spring is then located in a bushing/bearing to allow rotation (such that the two springs act against each other.
If you tried this with a conventional system (torsion springs, t-bar ARB) you would end up with some fairly horrible kinematics, by ‘ditching’ a conventional ARB - replacing with a near-solid link, you retain single-wheel bump/rebound (and are able to control both sides with a single damper), take roll to near-zero levels - making a very stable platform for the rear diffuser operation.
It is really the opposite to the classic Gordon Murray theory of not running a rear ARB (maximising traction) and putting all of your roll-control on the front axle.
We never have seen a picture of the front damper arrangement, but the upper ‘bow’ that appears to link both hubs (retained by two vertical mounts) could function as both helper spring and/or ARB.

+1 good point about the potential anti-roll function of the longbow. Was thinking recently they could reduce the fixing points to one in the middle, like a topside keel, although it would then translate roll force directly like a teeter-totter; pro roll. vov

Another odd feature of this mystery link (probably still there on the RB19 considering how little the car has changed) is that it is mounted at a slight angle. Not perfectly horizontal, and one side has a rose joint while the other has a split clamp/collar. Why would there be such asymmetry in rocker arm height? And installation method. Pretty sure we never see this on heave and roll devices.

Pic of the rb18/At03 gearbox and rear suspension area.

Best guess would be that primary ride height control is elsewhere in the system (the push-rods are more accessible), the split clamp allows the pressure on the device to be zeroed as base ride height adjustments are made.

[atanatizante]

Another Italian YouTuber (click auto-translate for English) suggests that at certain loads the beam wing and diffuser are stalling inducing a kind of triple DRS effect. Could it be right?

[marcel171281]

Another Italian YouTuber (click auto-translate for English) suggests that at certain loads the beam wing and diffuser are stalling inducing a kind of triple DRS effect. Could it be right?

I just don't get all this speculation about the RB DRS. It is just a DRS like any DRS, there is no magic bullet. It is just a very good and slipery design, with yet plenty downforce.

Most of the RB's advantage is in the race, not so much in qually. Of course setup plays a role, but if the trick is in the DRS, it would be the most obvious in a session where the DRS is used on every lap (qually). But yet, it is the other way around.

One of the party pieces of the RB is the Honda ERS. That doesn't help them in qually, as power and max energy usage is limited and the same for all. But in the race, when they are on sustainable ERS settings, the Honda ERS is better in harvesting and therefore can use more over a lap. Or, when the driver needs it for overtake, top-up the battery more and gain more speed in combination with an open DRS.

[atanatizante]

Now even The Race is explaining this matter in detail!

"Red Bull's genius 'triple DRS' F1 trick explained"

[Farnborough]

"Best guess would be that primary ride height control is elsewhere in the system (the push-rods are more accessible), the split clamp allows the pressure on the device to be zeroed as base ride height adjustments are made."

If there's a high degree of on throttle torque induced anti squat that enhances traction, wouldn't that then be overcome by increasing aero load as speed increases ?

In other words set the primary rear spring optimum to contain maximum aero loading, supplemented by anti squat that is overcome at crossing point of the two effects.

[organic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gygrqrufYMU

Would you be able to put a summary of the rb19 info the video has?

[organic]

Autosport



Autosport



Rear brake duct. Unless I'm mistaken, is the pattern of holes and the black coating new? The picture just strikes me as new in some way.



Rb19 for Australia. Can't see anything new - might not be on the car though

[Stu]

Autosport

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... dru-1.webp

Rear brake duct. Unless I'm mistaken, is the pattern of holes and the black coating new? The picture just strikes me as new in some way.

The same pattern is also on the SF23 brake discs, so I guess supplier oriented development.

Also the pin & fin cover seen in place on the caliper (as predicted here…).

[dxpetrov]

Autosport

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... cal-1.webp

Autosport

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... dru-1.webp

Rear brake duct. Unless I'm mistaken, is the pattern of holes and the black coating new? The picture just strikes me as new in some way.



Rb19 for Australia. Can't see anything new - might not be on the car though

Yeah, and the RW looks the same as in KSA...

[Juzh]

Autosport

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... cal-1.webp

Autosport

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... dru-1.webp

Rear brake duct. Unless I'm mistaken, is the pattern of holes and the black coating new? The picture just strikes me as new in some way.



Rb19 for Australia. Can't see anything new - might not be on the car though

Yeah, and the RW looks the same as in KSA...

It'll get swapped for the bahrain version I believe. No need for such extreme straight line speeds on this track, even with revised layout.

[AR3-GP]

Autosport

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... cal-1.webp

Autosport

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... dru-1.webp

Rear brake duct. Unless I'm mistaken, is the pattern of holes and the black coating new? The picture just strikes me as new in some way.



Rb19 for Australia. Can't see anything new - might not be on the car though

Yeah, and the RW looks the same as in KSA...

Max's car has the Jeddah wing. Checo's car has the bahrain wing.

Comparison running.

[organic]

Indeed

Duchessa has images showing both wings and clear Max runs the low downforce. it is not rare for max to end up with less downforce than checo so might be a conscious choice

[vorticism]

Autosport

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... cal-1.webp
Autosport

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... dru-1.webp
https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 8d78Q&s=19

+1

The packaging here looks good. They are continuing a long tradition they themselves started.



RB first introduced a shrink wrapped transmission cover with high cannon exit in 2010 with the RB6. It became more apparent with the RB7 which did not have a DDF. For contemporary F1 car design, the rest is history.