2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[S D]

Ok so I may answer my question partially here... but:

If Ferrari is really as bad as everyone says they are AND there really is a new concept coming next year, why waste money on continuing to develop this year's car? I guess the windtunnel time being restricted has something to do with it but maybe they can start working on some basic ideas under this year's cap so they can get ahead?

Now if my question above is valid, and that's a big IF, then if they don't do that, does it indicate that they will simply stay with the same concept next year, given that they would hypothetically continue to develop the car the rest of the season?

Am I out to lunch?

Under this scenario Ferrari would declare 'uncle' and start on next years car which means that they would not challenge RB this year. So with Ferrari out for the count, MB having declared that they shifting gears as well, AM unable to challenge just yet, what stops RB from shifting to next year as well?

[AR3-GP]

Unfortunately, we have no real info about the current situation in Ferrari. Clearly something went wrong during the development of this car, as the current performance is absolutely not acceptable. I also agree that the issue is not the overall concept, but the execution because this car is probably even worse than the F1 75 post TD.

I have never seen anyone recovering such a big gap from the competition. The best path forward right now is to try to understand what went wrong, deliver some upgrades to address the main issues, and indeed move to next year (unless the first few upgrades don't magically bring like 0,6 0,7s of performance).

Don't agree with the mentality of moving to next year, every year. At once the team should maximize and learn to develop within the year and gain that experience to try and reduce the deficit. They can move on to next year, go to RB concept and yet find themselves 1 sec behind next year. Team has to come out of the nature of giving up and moving onto next year all the time

Actually, Ferrari was quite competitive in 2017 and 2022 because they started working on the next year car at the time quite early. Currently, the car is 1s off. Now we need to see what the first few upgrades will bring in terms of performance. If they make the car 0.5s / 0.6s faster than i'd say it could be a good idea to keep improving the SF 23. If they only bring 0.2 0.3s then what is the point if you need to spend money on this year car instead of the next one?

It depends on if developments this year will be used as learning and correlation for the '24 car in the windtunnel.

[Xyz22]

Ok so I may answer my question partially here... but:

If Ferrari is really as bad as everyone says they are AND there really is a new concept coming next year, why waste money on continuing to develop this year's car? I guess the windtunnel time being restricted has something to do with it but maybe they can start working on some basic ideas under this year's cap so they can get ahead?

Now if my question above is valid, and that's a big IF, then if they don't do that, does it indicate that they will simply stay with the same concept next year, given that they would hypothetically continue to develop the car the rest of the season?

Am I out to lunch?

Under this scenario Ferrari would declare 'uncle' and start on next years car which means that they would not challenge RB this year. So with Ferrari out for the count, MB having declared that they shifting gears as well, AM unable to challenge just yet, what stops RB from shifting to next year as well?

Nothing. It's highly likely that RB will also win in 24 and 25 in fact.

[AR3-GP]

Ok so I may answer my question partially here... but:

If Ferrari is really as bad as everyone says they are AND there really is a new concept coming next year, why waste money on continuing to develop this year's car? I guess the windtunnel time being restricted has something to do with it but maybe they can start working on some basic ideas under this year's cap so they can get ahead?

Now if my question above is valid, and that's a big IF, then if they don't do that, does it indicate that they will simply stay with the same concept next year, given that they would hypothetically continue to develop the car the rest of the season?

Am I out to lunch?

Under this scenario Ferrari would declare 'uncle' and start on next years car which means that they would not challenge RB this year. So with Ferrari out for the count, MB having declared that they shifting gears as well, AM unable to challenge just yet, what stops RB from shifting to next year as well?

Nothing. It's highly likely that RB will also win in 24 and 25 in fact.

Mr. Pessimist in the house

If Ferrari make the leap that AMR did, anything is possible. As far as I see it, logically there must be something to unlock in the SF23 because it CANNOT be slower than the F1-75. That will remain fluke/teething troubles until proven otherwise despite all of the negativity coming from the drivers.

[organic]

Under this scenario Ferrari would declare 'uncle' and start on next years car which means that they would not challenge RB this year. So with Ferrari out for the count, MB having declared that they shifting gears as well, AM unable to challenge just yet, what stops RB from shifting to next year as well?

Nothing. It's highly likely that RB will also win in 24 and 25 in fact.

Mr. Pessimist in the house

If Ferrari make the leap that AMR did, anything is possible. As far as I see it, logically there must be something to unlock in the SF23 because it CANNOT be slower than the F1-75. That will remain fluke/teething troubles until proven otherwise despite all of the negativity coming from the drivers.

We're comparing the current F1-75 to high power + flexi-floor F1-75. That's not really a fair way to judge how much they've progressed since the end of last season (on the chassis side) because Td-039 lost them at least 5 tenths of race pace.

[dialtone]

LEC v VER


PER v LEC


Really tough to make comparisons with these folks due to the differences in tires, but cornering performance on the single lap is decent, remains to be seen if T1, T6 and T15-16 are just slightly slower because LEC wanted to take them that way or because of some compromise in the car.

Top speed difference IMHO is due to engine turned down.

ALO v LEC


Easier here though and LEC looks really good compared to ALO more or less across the board except for T1 and T15-16. Mercedes gearbox has shorter ratios but not that shorter so IMHO it's clear Ferrari is not pushing the engine, the fact that top speed and acceleration is similar tells me AM has more DF than Ferrari (and from images I saw ALO has less DF than STR, but maybe I'm wrong).

Long run pace for some reason LEC didn't do it, SAI managed literally 1 lap in 1.23.0 on Hards which is actually even competitive against ALO that lapped in 1.23.7-8.

Would be so ironic that Ferrari can turn on the tires on cold tracks better than the rest, as if they built the car for the cold winter months when all racing happens (jk).

[dialtone]

Since I've been sharing telemetry forever and this is the first time you share your opinion, I now know it is your opinion so I suppose I won't need to read it again.

[Vanja #66]

Pro tip AR3 - when you don't agree with something, ignore it. Constantly pointing out to the same things is spamming.

[dialtone]

ALO v LEC FP2


LEC v LEC FP1/FP2


FP2 was a bit compromised of course, hard to tell much, also track was 8C colder, 25C instead of 33C.

* However it seems S3 was much improved for LEC despite being on the medium tire on a colder track.
* T1 still a bit slower for Ferrari like in FP1
* T11-12 worse in FP2 compared to FP1, I'm not sure it's a downforce thing because S3 improves a lot compared to FP1 where LEC matched ALO in this corner, so could be fuel related so it might be Ferrari was a bit heavier.

[F1NAC]

wtf was that soft tyre run during rain?

[Xyz22]

Under this scenario Ferrari would declare 'uncle' and start on next years car which means that they would not challenge RB this year. So with Ferrari out for the count, MB having declared that they shifting gears as well, AM unable to challenge just yet, what stops RB from shifting to next year as well?

Nothing. It's highly likely that RB will also win in 24 and 25 in fact.

Mr. Pessimist in the house

If Ferrari make the leap that AMR did, anything is possible. As far as I see it, logically there must be something to unlock in the SF23 because it CANNOT be slower than the F1-75. That will remain fluke/teething troubles until proven otherwise despite all of the negativity coming from the drivers.

More like Mr Realistic. In my job i often have to rely on past years figures/numbers/information so is probably something i do without even realizing

Jokes aside, we shouldn't forget that Ferrari must improve in every single area even if they somehow develop a competitive car for next year: pit stops, strategy, driver management and of course "political power". I'm also factoring in these aspects when i predict RB winning in the upcoming years. Not only they have the best package by a massive margin right now, but they are also the best team by far.

So is it possible for Ferrari to be competitive? Absolutely, but also extremely difficult.

[MTL79]

Ok so I may answer my question partially here... but:

If Ferrari is really as bad as everyone says they are AND there really is a new concept coming next year, why waste money on continuing to develop this year's car? I guess the windtunnel time being restricted has something to do with it but maybe they can start working on some basic ideas under this year's cap so they can get ahead?

Now if my question above is valid, and that's a big IF, then if they don't do that, does it indicate that they will simply stay with the same concept next year, given that they would hypothetically continue to develop the car the rest of the season?

Am I out to lunch?

Under this scenario Ferrari would declare 'uncle' and start on next years car which means that they would not challenge RB this year. So with Ferrari out for the count, MB having declared that they shifting gears as well, AM unable to challenge just yet, what stops RB from shifting to next year as well?

Sure, but is Red Bull really worried about Ferrari challenging them this year anyway? And whatever Red Bull learns this year, they will apply to next year's car as they are keeping their concept. If Ferrari continue developing this concept and abandoning it next year, it would seem to me, to be an inefficient use of restricted funds.

[maxxer]

ALO v LEC FP2
https://i.imgur.com/T0wOKXO.jpeg

LEC v LEC FP1/FP2
https://i.imgur.com/yZnmzKD.jpeg

FP2 was a bit compromised of course, hard to tell much, also track was 8C colder, 25C instead of 33C.

* However it seems S3 was much improved for LEC despite being on the medium tire on a colder track.
* T1 still a bit slower for Ferrari like in FP1
* T11-12 worse in FP2 compared to FP1, I'm not sure it's a downforce thing because S3 improves a lot compared to FP1 where LEC matched ALO in this corner, so could be fuel related so it might be Ferrari was a bit heavier.

Thanks for sharing it though

[f1316]

Leclerc showing a little bit of positivity in his comments for tyre first time this season: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-le ... /10450874/

It sounds as if some setup things have been helping; I had wondered if going to a track where more dirty downforce could be run might help them, but it didn’t look like they had a different wing (and I appreciate Melbourne is now higher speed than it used to be).

Still, the car ‘looked’ Ok-ish on track - for whatever that’s worth - and seems to be borne out by both the telemetry and, probably more encouraging for me, the drivers.

Edit: Sainz also talks about “small positive steps” (although tbh I don’t put a lot of faith in anything he says any more) https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-sa ... /10450908/

[organic]

Thank you for the telemetry comparisons @dialtone. Much appreciated as always

Apart from the final corner the car seems to be in a good place.