AR3-GP wrote: ↑08 Apr 2023, 15:58
ringo wrote: ↑08 Apr 2023, 15:48
AR3-GP wrote: ↑08 Apr 2023, 04:47
There is no phantom downwash that is occuring ahead of the mid-wing, causing it to generate downforce. Come on, stop it.
How would you know that? I did not say downwash. I said upwash.
Sorry if that is confusing, I was referring to this post of yours:
ringo wrote: ↑08 Apr 2023, 04:30
The mid wing may be aero neutral or it may generate lift. I suspect if the upstream air of it is not coming to it straight, it can possibly be neutral or by a stretch generate downforce. The air is not hitting it head on like clean virgin air without any 3d considerations. The air is rolling through the control arms, and from over the top of the chassis, then there is the upwash from the front wing.
The net force from the wing depends heavily on the angle of attack, and that is relative to the localized flow vector upstream.
You said:
I suspect if the upstream air of it is not coming to it straight, it can possibly be neutral or by a stretch generate downforce.
The only way the midwing generates downforce directly is in the presence of a hurricane
Your second point:
How would you know that? I did not say downwash. I said upwash.
If there is some upwash, then the midwing is definitely generating lift. I don't think there is too much upwash. You can see that the front suspension and the vane on the side of the nose box just ahead of the sidepod inlet are encouraging some downwash and the mid-wing is locally consistent.
I can't see any credible argument that this is "aero-neutral" or "generating downforce". All signs point to the mid-wing being down washing, thus generating some lift. This lift is not an inherent problem with the design. It's a tradeoff.
https://www.autohebdo.fr/app/uploads/20 ... scaled.jpg
It's not as simple as because it's generating downwash downstream its generating lift.
You would have to actually investigate it with cfd or a wind tunnel.
I am just saying I would not come to a conclusion without any real information.
What I do know if the air is coming onto that wing at an angle, say angle greater than the title of the wing, It can indeed generate downforce.
Aerodynamics is very complex, so i do not like to draw conclusions using generic information.
Also of note is the mid wings shape. If you look carefully the lower surface has a longer arc length than the upper surface, which is a good indication that the lower pressure is underneath. Not a definitive law, but just a little rule of thumb or hint.