2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

I feel MV displays exceptional front brake sensitivity as not often observed with any significant front locking.

RB 18 seemed to have very similar levels without problem last time there in Monaco too.

Reported he brakes earlier than SP as well (is that true? ) but not information on comparative levels between the two, would be logical for the later application to have higher pedal pressure though, and potentially more vulnerable to feeling lock limits with finese.

RB has not been anymore prone to front brake locking than any other car in the last couple of years. I find it strange that people are latching onto the anti-dive theory, as if this explains every front brake lockup in the last decade, even on cars that didn't feature anti-dive geometry.

Sometimes drivers just misjudge it. Unloading the inside wheel with too much brake pressure. It happens for one reason or another. Verstappen had already been told that his front tires (hard compound) were cold.

[Farnborough]

More teams appear to be moving towards this thinking and application from casual observations.

[PhillipM]

I think it's quite a leap to claim that brake lockup is attributed to the Rb's anti-dive geometry. And to be speculating about "modified wishbones"? Red Bull already had a similarly extreme suspension geometry last year and the driver had 1 lockup into T13 in melbourne. Aston Martin has a similarly aggressive front suspension. Will they modify their wishbones for Monaco too? I think we are jumping to far too many conclusions. Talking about modifying suspension wishbones because a driver locked up. Come on....are you just hoping the RB has a flaw?

Are you for real? Where did I say anything like it was a flaw? It's a compromise, like any geometery decision.
And yes, a lot of teams modify wishbones for Monaco for similar reasons, Merc and RB included previously

[AR3-GP]

delete

[ValeVida46]

Christian Horner responds to Mercedes driver George Russell's claim that Red Bull are sandbagging to hide pace...

Russell hasn't driven a dominant Mercedes

[chrisc90]

Christian Horner responds to Mercedes driver George Russell's claim that Red Bull are sandbagging to hide pace...

Russell hasn't driven a dominant Mercedes

He did drive Lewis’ car in 2020.

Also, Christian is saying it’s something is team can tell him about. Bit George’s experience

[ValeVida46]

He did drive Lewis’ car in 2020.

For 1 race where he went hell for leather when he was effectively racing Bottas for that seat. That Sandbagging?

Also, Christian is saying it’s something is team can tell him about. Bit George’s experience

Seems Christian knows more than Russell then.

[ValeVida46]

Then you cold say Russell knows more about the RB19 than what Christian does if you want to go down that route. George made a comment, then Christian shut him completely down.

George can say what he likes about the sport, and won't ever be shut down by a team boss other than his own. In much the same way Horner can say what he likes and won't be shut down by anyone aside from his superiors.
Hyperbolic "shutting down" of anyone is just silly.

It’s a known fact that Merc were working with the FIA VERY early on with the development of the turbo hybrid engines. 4-5years and got the engine tailored to their requirements, they were the only team on a test bed to report info back. Then running the engine at 75% of its power for majority of races/seasons as it was that far ahead of everyone else.

Yet redbull being 0.5 second faster than anyone else is more advantage than what merc had way back 8 years ago. Comical

This is tangential and besides from not being relevant to the thread, I can't find a single source to back up what you've just claimed as "known fact".

These links might help you with the what actually happened rather some unsubstantiated 5 year head start and 75% engine running
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/formu ... 4/4445884/
https://paultan.org/2010/12/11/formula- ... from-2013/

[CMC]

Then you cold say Russell knows more about the RB19 than what Christian does if you want to go down that route. George made a comment, then Christian shut him completely down.

George can say what he likes about the sport, and won't ever be shut down by a team boss other than his own. In much the same way Horner can say what he likes and won't be shut down by anyone aside from his superiors.
Hyperbolic "shutting down" of anyone is just silly.

Agreed, Horner didn't "shut down" anything whatsoever. He made a petty dig at Mercedes, which is something he's done ad nauseum.

Especially hard to take Horner's word at face value when Max himself basically stated (in a less politically-motivated way than Russell) that he's holding back to protect the car/tires. Whether he's holding back even more than just to protect the tires, we won't know until another team (or Checo? lol) is able to mount more of a challenge against him.

From Max's interview with Rosanna Tennant after Australia:

Tennant - "Are you pushing it as much as you can, or are you slightly holding back so that the head honchos don't kind of put you at a disadvantage come later in the season?"

Verstappen - "I mean I think anyway there's nothing really they can do. I mean we just try to do the best we can, right, with the development of the car. But it's also about pace management because we didn't really know, I think no one really knew how long that hard tire would last. And so it's about just bringing it home because we had a bit of pace I think over the others. And yeah there is no need to try and gain half a second a lap and destroy your tires to the end. Because you never know, like a safety car can happen, red flags, like we had today, and so yeah it's not necessary to risk all that."

Tennant - "And just going back to that very first start if we can remember that far back, it seemed like you had a little bit of trouble getting away. I was a bit worried, then, when we had more restarts you were going to suffer. Is there a clutch problem underlying?"

Verstappen - "No, we just didn't have a good start, not the right - we didn't choose the right procedure, and yeah I was just quite cautious on the first lap. I didn't want to risk getting damage. And the cars behind me they were really aggressive, I mean fair enough. They knew they were not quick enough and so the only chance they have is lap 1 and they took advantage of that."

Tennant - "I love that. And so the only chance to get you now is on a start?"

Verstappen - "Uhhh, at the moment. We don't know what's going to happen in the future races."

[ValeVida46]

Agreed [snip]

I've quoted that Max quote myself

It's pretty clear even from the team bosses that they're nursing reliability issues and aren't close to showing their full hand.
No idea why this is remotely contentious either.

[SiLo]

He did drive Lewis’ car in 2020.

For 1 race where he went hell for leather when he was effectively racing Bottas for that seat. That Sandbagging?

Also, Christian is saying it’s something is team can tell him about. Bit George’s experience

Seems Christian knows more than Russell then.

Then you cold say Russell knows more about the RB19 than what Christian does if you want to go down that route.

George made a comment, then Christian shut him completely down.

It’s a known fact that Merc were working with the FIA VERY early on with the development of the turbo hybrid engines. 4-5years and got the engine tailored to their requirements, they were the only team on a test bed to report info back.

Then running the engine at 75% of its power for majority of races/seasons as it was that far ahead of everyone else.

Yet redbull being 0.5 second faster than anyone else is more advantage than what merc had way back 8 years ago. Comical

It's literally a PR game that Mercedes know how to play very well. Easier to just ignore it and not get sucked in.

[mendis]

Agreed [snip]

I've quoted that Max quote myself

It's pretty clear even from the team bosses that they're nursing reliability issues and aren't close to showing their full hand.
No idea why this is remotely contentious either.

I am sure Horner and Max enjoy having whatever advantage they have, regardless of how big it is for so long as it keeps them comfortably ahead. They have learnt a few PR stunts from Mercedes to underplay their advantage. Any team that has an advantage wouldn't say it loud to avoid FIA intervention. Red Bull currently have enough advantage to stay ahead until 2025. It would be interesting to see how long George goes on with his amusement at Red Bull pace! This is his second year of his great performance as "Chief PR Officer" for Red Bull performance. He deserves a part of Red Bull Sponsor payments, who would be delighted every time when they hear George talking about RB pace.

[ringo]

Russel is correct. Redbull are sand bagging. I do not see why there is an argument over this fact.
It's clear from the races that Max manages the pace, even to the much slower W14. Nothing bad about that and we cannot blame them. Horner is just being over defensive. He know's that if they even run the car at normal pace, it is one second a lap to the next car. Once we get a race uninterrupted by Safety Cars, Max will be overlapping everyone up to 6th place. It's basic math from a car 1 second a lap faster, and a team with the fastest pitstops.
Mercedes have been dominant and have sand bagged, but both drivers pushed each other, and those cars were not nursed in the days of changing engine modes. We did see the true pace of the car when the drivers went to "strat 1" when instructed, and even against instruction to fight each other. We are not likely to the PU, nor drivers pushed in this era because of strict engine mode rules and because of the delicacy of Checo's contract. If we do see both Checo and Max 1-2 halfway through a race, you can bet that Checo will not be permitted to push to try and fight Max.
So the sand bagging will continue.

[AR3-GP]

Agreed [snip]

I've quoted that Max quote myself

It's pretty clear even from the team bosses that they're nursing reliability issues and aren't close to showing their full hand.
No idea why this is remotely contentious either.

I am sure Horner and Max enjoy having whatever advantage they have, regardless of how big it is for so long as it keeps them comfortably ahead. They have learnt a few PR stunts from Mercedes to underplay their advantage. Any team that has an advantage wouldn't say it loud to avoid FIA intervention. Red Bull currently have enough advantage to stay ahead until 2025. It would be interesting to see how long George goes on with his amusement at Red Bull pace! This is his second year of his great performance as "Chief PR Officer" for Red Bull performance. He deserves a part of Red Bull Sponsor payments, who would be delighted every time when they hear George talking about RB pace.

I think it would be interesting if Russell jumped ship eventually. Apparently, RB tried to sign him from Williams at one point.

[AR3-GP]

If we do see both Checo and Max 1-2 halfway through a race, you can bet that Checo will not be permitted to push to try and fight Max.
So the sand bagging will continue.

As for the rest of this, well Checo wanted the team to call off the Max attack and "save the cars" in Jeddah