2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Juzh]

I'm like 70% certain RB didn't run full power in melbourne.

I am 100% certain as no one does.

I'm basing this by looking at a bunch of onboards, telemetries and so on. I've got nothing concrete obviously, just a feeling.

Ah, ok...feeling...from onboards...
You know that they were nursing the tires like crazy? Means...they were not using full traction. No idea how you can judge acceleration...

It's happened already in bahrain, so it's not completely unheard of. There they turned it down mid-race, here they were turned down already for qualifying.

This is why the ERS was so much on the edge that it put Per into the gravel?
First thing you would turn down a bit is the recovery under braking giving both drivers a nasty feel.

Almost entire field was driving away from both RBs during initial acceleration. Only at top end they had advantage, but that was coming almost entirely from honda's ERS advantage.

This is normal, the Honda ICE was always the lowest on torque.

As for perez, he was just slow with no confidence. Forget that fastest lap, it's meaningless. We've seen verstappen was able to dispatch hamilton at will when needed, meanwhile perez needs 15 laps to catch norris, then another few to overtake slowest car on straights.

So the car is dominant and Perez is so bad? I do not really see this.

If it wasn't obvious what I was trying to say: they turned it down further than usual.

Because it's hard to judge I don't claim anything for certain, but those are my observations. When they're trying to overtake someone they're not just cruising. Perez was not doing much managing when fighting other cars, he just wanted to get trough them. When he was in DRS train cars ahead would nearly always create distance before he'd start to creep up on top end.

I believe they turned down ICE itself, not by much or that it would have a meaningful effect on top speed, just enough to mask some performance. 10 hp would be worth few tenths over a lap. Perez was locking up and going off all the time even in FP, he's not a measure of anything.

First time I'm hearing Honda in general being lowest on torque low down.

Car was dominant enough for easy win as we've seen. Yes, perez was slow overall. A couple fast laps don't mean much.

[Bill]

i will imagine having low end torque is good for overall tire preservation

[ValeVida46]

Car was dominant enough for easy win as we've seen. Yes, perez was slow overall. A couple fast laps don't mean much.

Concurred. He seemingly carried over a bit of trauma from his off during quali.
Perez himself said he lost confidence in the car, specifically the front end under braking.

Ricciardo went on to say:

“He was certainly struggling this morning with, in short, stuff on braking, not being able to get a balance right there.
They were having a few issues and obviously that looks like it translated into quali.
I watched the onboard [and] it didn’t look like he sent a Hail Mary into [Turn] 3.
It looked like a fairly normal braking point, didn’t look too ambitious, and you could kind of hear on the downshifts he was kind of reaching for the revs to try and slow the car down and wasn’t stopping. So I think I think they got a few things to look at"

I think the other major problem for Perez, aside from the above, is that Oz is front limited and a street surface with a track layout that doesn't benefit faster cars starting well behind as say Jeddah would.
The other issue is the DRS train buffer effect you get at Albert park. Perez did mention this, and it was pretty clear from the race footage that he had a tougher time here than you'd get in Jeddah, as the track layouts/surface etc are more conducive for that.

When we looked where we started and how difficult it was to pass with the DRS train that we ended up [in], we managed to limit a bit the damage from yesterday. But I was pretty frustrated later on, because I just couldn’t get close enough, and it just took me a bit too long in that DRS train.

[basti313]

If it wasn't obvious what I was trying to say: they turned it down further than usual.

Like Alonso cruising 1.5sec behind Ham once he saw he can not get him? Or Ham turning it down once Alo was out of DRS?
I think we saw all cars at the front being turned down more than usual. Just look at the lap time evolution, this is just target driving at very low targets.

Because it's hard to judge I don't claim anything for certain, but those are my observations. When they're trying to overtake someone they're not just cruising. Perez was not doing much managing when fighting other cars, he just wanted to get trough them. When he was in DRS train cars ahead would nearly always create distance before he'd start to creep up on top end.

Which is also normal on this track. Same effect as in Spain...you simply do not have traction out of the last corner. The further behind in the chain the worse it gets.

I believe they turned down ICE itself, not by much or that it would have a meaningful effect on top speed, just enough to mask some performance. 10 hp would be worth few tenths over a lap.

This is not making sense for me. Top speed is what the ICE generates ex aero.
Also...you would not generally turn anything down. We have seen it over years with Merc, they turned down the engine as soon as they are at the front. But once a car is out of position they slice through the field with full power. So using the inability of Per to overtake as an argument for sandbagging is odd.

First time I'm hearing Honda in general being lowest on torque low down.

Even Sky reports this. It was a topic for the bad starts (not the first one).

Car was dominant enough for easy win as we've seen. Yes, perez was slow overall. A couple fast laps don't mean much.

Yes, but I do not think it was as strong in Oz as in Saudi. One could easily see that RedBull was faster and certainly turned down the car once they were in front. But nothing unusual or sandbagging as some claim. Sandbagging does not make any sense after humiliating the rest of the field in Saudi.

[Juzh]

Starts thingy has nothing to do with lack of torque. Just about every other problem will be more significant than that, hamilton had trash starts in 2016 all the time with the best engine. Sky are completely clueless when it comes to technical things and always have been, they're a tabloid broadcaster.

[AR3-GP]

The Red Bull gearbox has longer gearing than both the Mercedes and Ferrari gearboxes. I've seen this on the f1dataanaylsis twitter. It is difficult to measure engine torque without an engine dyno.

[Farnborough]

The Red Bull gearbox has longer gearing than both the Mercedes and Ferrari gearboxes. I've seen this on the f1dataanaylsis twitter. It is difficult to measure engine torque without an engine dyno.

If the aero is superior in drag figures, as observation suggests, that obviously gives a small percentage of leeway they may have to work within.
Thought there was allowance consideration in DRS deployment to make sure not to exceed rpm during this, but moved a little further for overall ratio in scenario of DRS + Slipstream to just give a little more topside on the 8th ratio may be here.

In other words, slightly below ideal absolute optimum (too high ratio) for non slipstream pace, possibly a very small tradeoff to enhance that assisted overspeed that appears to be there.

[KimiRai]

According to a little bird: RedBull will change cooling ducts, the clutch, and something about the launch mechanism. Also, they almost didn't make it last race due to the clutch.

[PlatinumZealot]

i will imagine having low end torque is good for overall tire preservation

They ERS toque fill is actually too much at low rpms just going by the traction troubles that these cars have since 2014. We always here drivers complain about lack of traction and too much wheel spin. So it seems it's who can control the torque the most that preseves their tires than who has has the highr toque.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Red Bull gearbox has longer gearing than both the Mercedes and Ferrari gearboxes. I've seen this on the f1dataanaylsis twitter. It is difficult to measure engine torque without an engine dyno.

That's what you got when you comparw the vehicle speed and the engine speed?

[AR3-GP]

The Red Bull gearbox has longer gearing than both the Mercedes and Ferrari gearboxes. I've seen this on the f1dataanaylsis twitter. It is difficult to measure engine torque without an engine dyno.

That's what you got when you comparw the vehicle speed and the engine speed?

I didn't personally do the calculations. It was the twitter guy.

[Wouter]

[lio007]

Thanks!

[Wouter]

Horner says ‘total cultural change’ in F1 makes it much harder for Red Bull to retain superiority

Christian Horner admits it will be harder for Red Bull to maintain their advantage over their rivals for long due to the “cultural change” in the sport, with the introduction of the cost cap, alongside the wind tunnel and CFD restrictions they face this year.

Red Bull have enjoyed a strong start to their title defence in 2023 - having taken pole position and won all three races so far this season – with Max Verstappen's victories in Bahrain and Australia sandwiching Sergio Perez’s win in Saudi Arabia.
This means the team from Milton Keynes currently sit comfortably at the top of the constructors’ standings with 123 points – 58 points ahead of their closest rivals Aston Martin, followed by Mercedes and Ferrari in third and fourth respectively.
However, along with the cost cap limiting their spending, Red Bull also have the lowest amount of wind tunnel and CFD time this season as the reigning champions. That has been further reduced by the penalties handed to them by the FIA for their breach of the 2021 cost cap limit – hampering their ability to develop the RB19 this campaign.

Speaking in Melbourne about the restrictions placed on his team this year, Horner said:
“I think it will be very tough for us to develop this car, because when you look at the amount of percentage time less we have compared to some of our rivals, it’s significant.
But it is what it is. We just have to do the best we can with what we’ve got, be efficient, effective, and selective in what we choose to develop, and how we apportion our time.”

He explained: “It’s been a total cultural change over the last couple of years. It’s a new challenge in Formula 1, how you apply your resources. It used to be a sprint in terms of developing a car as quickly as you could with whatever budget you can rustle up.
Now it’s a question of how and where do you apply your resources, and of course there are so many variables like crash damage, accident damage in there that can have a massive effect on your potential to develop. It’s going to be interesting to see how it pans out this year.”

However, so far this year, Red Bull’s pace has led many to believe that the drivers’ championship will be an inter-team battle between Verstappen and Perez. History has shown that could create friction between the pair, but Horner does not expect that to be the case for his drivers.
“They are two competitive drivers, the relationship is fine, there is a good respect between the two of them,” said Horner. “They both know the responsibility they have driving for the team.
There’s expectations that come with that, but they're in a good place. They’ve been a very effective pairing for us, and I expect that to continue.”

[chrisc90]

Any word on possible updates for this weekend? Something even more super slippery?