2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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RedNEO
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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https://es.motorsport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10457874/
Exclusive: Honda F1 seeks to be Aston Martin's engine by 2026

Aston Martin studies separating from Mercedes and ceasing to be a client team to be the main team of Honda from Formula 1 2026.
When the FIA made official the names of the six power unit manufacturers that have agreed to join the 2026 engine regulation on February 3rd, only one surprise name emerged, that of Honda. Now, we have been able to learn that the Japanese manufacturer wants to join Aston Martin which would mean, if it is still in the top flight that year, the reunion between Fernando Alonso and Honda.

After having faced the hybrid challenge since 2015, the Japanese manufacturer experienced very difficult moments until its resurrection together with Red Bull. A rematch that they enjoyed only in part, since on the eve of the 2021 world title came the surprising news that their program would be stopped.

Honda continued and continues to supply power units to the Milton Keynes team, but what made the Japanese manufacturer's policy even more inexplicable was the official agreement between Red Bull and Ford.

The result is that, to this day, the presence of Honda at the start of the 2026 Championship remains unknown in the absence of an agreement with a team. The available options are not that many; Sauber (which will be Audi) will go from a customer team to a factory team, leaving Williams, McLaren and Aston Martin as possible opportunities.

According to information collected by Motorsport.com, Honda's top management is currently only moving in one direction, and that is Aston Martin. It is no mystery that the ambitions of the team owner, Lawrence Stroll, are to take the team to compete for the world championship, and the agreement with Mercedes, which has been vital for the growth of the structure, may be a limitation in the long term. It is difficult for a customer team to prevail over its works team, especially if (as is the case now) it inherits so many parts from the car.
With that in mind, for Aston Martin the prospect of an exclusive deal with Honda is anything but a risky move. There is already a mechanism to facilitate the first conversations, and it is Martin Whitmarsh, current CEO of the team and in the past team manager of McLaren, when the Woking team closed the agreement with Honda.

There are several aspects involved that can make the negotiation less smooth than expected, but none seems insurmountable. Lawrence Stroll owns full ownership of the Formula 1 team, as well as a significant (although not majority) stake in the Aston Martin Lagonda holding company, which makes the road cars.

Shareholders also include Mercedes itself, and obviously moving to Honda in Formula 1, even if it is in fact an isolated context from the manufacturer, could create some tension.
It is not, however, an indissoluble link between the Formula 1 team and the parent company, but rather an agreement put in place by Stroll after the purchase of Racing Point to give the team a new and sellable image. An important step at the time that loses relevance in the face of an agreement with an official manufacturer like Honda.

For Aston Martin, the scenario of an agreement with the Japanese manufacturer would entail several new challenges, starting with the independence that today the agreement with Mercedes compensates.

It means setting up its own wind tunnel (the one in Brackley is still in use today) and independently manufacturing the gearbox and rear end of the car, which currently come from Mercedes along with the power unit. If the challenge is accepted, there will be everything at Silverstone to aspire to absolute goals, and considering the ambitions of Lawrence Stroll, the scenario is not at all unlikely.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Smart
A lion must kill its prey.

EvilPhil II
EvilPhil II
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Also Honda unofficially and officially supplied Jordan in the past and Alonso sadly would have retired by 2026.

KimiRai
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EvilPhil II wrote:
19 Apr 2023, 11:04
and Alonso sadly would have retired by 2026.
About that... we don't know. If the cars continue to be good, if he hasn't lost too much speed or reflexes and maintains his motivation, it's not impossible that he stays for longer. He's a different beast than even most top athletes, he was born to race & wants to have a steering wheel at his hands all the time. And most importantly, he knows he should have much more than two world championships. So if he wins another world championship then his chances of retiring will massively increase in my opinion.

He said that as long as he has a chance, even if it is only 1/100, he will keep trying to win again. And that was before Aston showed up with a much improved car, so maybe now it's even a little better than 1/100 haha. Unless this car was a miracle and next year they return to the midfield, he's got from now on the best chance in over a decade.

Also, I honestly believe Lance has a higher chance at a WDC than a lot of the grid do, even if most people think the opposite.

EvilPhil II
EvilPhil II
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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The other angle may be might Honda buy Aston F1?

NL_Fer
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It doesn’t seem that there is a financial deal between Aston Martin Lagonda and Aston Martin F1. So they F1 team could drop the name in favour of free engines and funding to built their own gearbox and hydraulics. Or the could create something like Aston Martin Racing Point Honda, it didn’t seem to bother back in 2019 with Redbull.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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NL_Fer wrote:
19 Apr 2023, 21:53
It doesn’t seem that there is a financial deal between Aston Martin Lagonda and Aston Martin F1. So they F1 team could drop the name in favour of free engines and funding to built their own gearbox and hydraulics. Or the could create something like Aston Martin Racing Point Honda, it didn’t seem to bother back in 2019 with Redbull.
Aston Martin said in a statement that the agreement with Racing Point, who finished seventh overall in 2019, was for an initial 10-year term and the carmaker “will receive an economic interest in the team.”

“The agreement also includes a sponsorship arrangement from 2021 and for the subsequent four years with commercial terms commensurate with the Company’s current annual F1 expenditure,” it added.

This was renewable for five years, subject to satisfying certain conditions.
https://www.reuters.com/article/motor-f ... NL4N2A03OR
A lion must kill its prey.

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peewon
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AM is/has been doing incredible investment in facilities and personnel. Gotta give credit to Lawrence. Man doesn't cheap out in trying to make his sons dreams come true.

Having said that, it took Red Bull 7 years to catch Mercedes even with the likes of Adrian Newey and a full fledged infrastructure. The odds of AM or anyone catching Red Bull in this regulation cycle are extremely long.

Now, the Merc PU advantage was probably harder to close down due to the technical challenges than it should be to claw back RBs aero advantage but the new PU regs will be the most likely next big shake up.

AR3-GP
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peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:41
AM is/has been doing incredible investment in facilities and personnel. Gotta give credit to Lawrence. Man doesn't cheap out in trying to make his sons dreams come true.

Having said that, it took Red Bull 7 years to catch Mercedes even with the likes of Adrian Newey and a full fledged infrastructure. The odds of AM or anyone catching Red Bull in this regulation cycle are extremely long.
It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.

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peewon
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AR3-GP wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:42
peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:41
AM is/has been doing incredible investment in facilities and personnel. Gotta give credit to Lawrence. Man doesn't cheap out in trying to make his sons dreams come true.

Having said that, it took Red Bull 7 years to catch Mercedes even with the likes of Adrian Newey and a full fledged infrastructure. The odds of AM or anyone catching Red Bull in this regulation cycle are extremely long.
It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world :lol:
Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.

AR3-GP
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peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 01:06
AR3-GP wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:42
peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:41
AM is/has been doing incredible investment in facilities and personnel. Gotta give credit to Lawrence. Man doesn't cheap out in trying to make his sons dreams come true.

Having said that, it took Red Bull 7 years to catch Mercedes even with the likes of Adrian Newey and a full fledged infrastructure. The odds of AM or anyone catching Red Bull in this regulation cycle are extremely long.
It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world :lol:
Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.
I don't think AMR will reach such a height that they can afford to let Lance be the #1 driver. Their best chance at a championship is going to be one with a car that is there or thereabouts, and a driver who can close the deal against the likes of Verstappen, Russell, Leclerc. Lance is not that driver. He never claimed to be either.
A lion must kill its prey.

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peewon
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AR3-GP wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 01:57
peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 01:06
AR3-GP wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:42


It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world :lol:
Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.
I don't think AMR will reach such a height that they can afford to let Lance be the #1 driver. Their best chance at a championship is going to be one with a car that is there or thereabouts, and a driver who can close the deal against the likes of Verstappen, Russell, Leclerc. Lance is not that driver. He never claimed to be either.
I think so too.Thats more realistic. But I think the Strolls think if they can get a car that's clearly better and in the meantime Lance can improve by learning from guys like Vettel and Alonso, that gives him a chance.

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RedNEO
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peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 01:06
AR3-GP wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:42
peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:41
AM is/has been doing incredible investment in facilities and personnel. Gotta give credit to Lawrence. Man doesn't cheap out in trying to make his sons dreams come true.

Having said that, it took Red Bull 7 years to catch Mercedes even with the likes of Adrian Newey and a full fledged infrastructure. The odds of AM or anyone catching Red Bull in this regulation cycle are extremely long.
It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world :lol:
Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.
Alonso is in control of his own destiny at AM. He’s known both Strolls for 12 years so anything they decide will be mutual. Alonso will stay for as long as he and the car is competitive.

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chrisc90
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Update on the new Factory getting built

Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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zoroastar
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peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 01:06
AR3-GP wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:42
peewon wrote:
20 Apr 2023, 00:41
AM is/has been doing incredible investment in facilities and personnel. Gotta give credit to Lawrence. Man doesn't cheap out in trying to make his sons dreams come true.

Having said that, it took Red Bull 7 years to catch Mercedes even with the likes of Adrian Newey and a full fledged infrastructure. The odds of AM or anyone catching Red Bull in this regulation cycle are extremely long.
It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world :lol:
Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.
if a +/- 1 second gap isnt able to be closed in less than 2 or 3 years then this set of regs, with the wind tunnel times and cost cap, has completely failed. whether AM (or any other teams) do close that gap is one thing, but it is completely in the realm of possibilities, especially with the jump they have made from last year. i think the new rules have changed the timelines a bit and we havent given it enough time to see the full affect yet. i also think that mercedes wouldnt have gone 7-0 if redbull had access to the mercedes PU 2014-2021 but well probably never know for sure haha