2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world

Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.

if a +/- 1 second gap isnt able to be closed in less than 2 or 3 years then this set of regs, with the wind tunnel times and cost cap, has completely failed. whether AM (or any other teams) do close that gap is one thing, but it is completely in the realm of possibilities, especially with the jump they have made from last year. i think the new rules have changed the timelines a bit and we havent given it enough time to see the full affect yet. i also think that mercedes wouldnt have gone 7-0 if redbull had access to the mercedes PU 2014-2021 but well probably never know for sure haha

Regulations cannot equalize the talent within the F1 teams (although ironically we are seeing a lot of cross pollination of engineers due to budget caps forcing people out).

Are the regs broken because my DIY f1 team can't get anywhere near Williams? or because Williams can't catch RB?

[peewon]

It only took RB 7 years because their PU wasn't very good for 6 of them.

The promising part about the current timelines is that the deficit is aeroydnamic in nature and AMR have much more control over that. and if they take over that Honda PU supply in 2026, look out world

Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.

if a +/- 1 second gap isnt able to be closed in less than 2 or 3 years then this set of regs, with the wind tunnel times and cost cap, has completely failed. whether AM (or any other teams) do close that gap is one thing, but it is completely in the realm of possibilities, especially with the jump they have made from last year. i think the new rules have changed the timelines a bit and we havent given it enough time to see the full affect yet. i also think that mercedes wouldnt have gone 7-0 if redbull had access to the mercedes PU 2014-2021 but well probably never know for sure haha

The field behind red bull is actually as closer than I can ever remember in at least 2 decades. Different teams still have different infrastructure and talent so there will always be a difference. Plus it will take a few years before the effects truly bed in.

[Andres125sx]

if a +/- 1 second gap isnt able to be closed in less than 2 or 3 years then this set of regs, with the wind tunnel times and cost cap, has completely failed.

1 second gap might be closed with in-season upgrades. Probably it won´t as RBR will also improve, but 1 second improvement during the season is standard, nothing extraordinary, specially with a new ruleset.

Add to that the extended wind tunnel time at least this season, and I don´t think AM will finish the season fighting RBR, but I hope they will reduce the gap under 5 tenths, so they can fight them in 2024

I know, I´m very optimistic, but at this point... why not?

[Andres125sx]

The field behind red bull is actually as closer than I can ever remember in at least 2 decades.

Indeed, closest grid I have ever seen, and I´m watching F1 since the 90s.

This ruleset and cost cap is a complete success IMO, there will always be more talented people building faster cars, but that´s what competition is about, anyone who want a F1 grid thighter than this than this should move to some spec series

[diffuser]

You know, if f Ferrari can lose 1 second to RBR, in a few month, we can surely make that up and more. Stop trying to look into your crystal balls and tell me what's going to happen. If you knew, you wouldn't be watching.

[AR3-GP]

You know, if f Ferrari can lose 1 second to RBR, in a few month, we can surely make that up and more.

I don't think there's any comparison between the two.

[diffuser]

You know, if f Ferrari can lose 1 second to RBR, in a few month, we can surely make that up and more.

I don't think there's any comparison between the two.

Sure there is. The lottery too. This is just guessing going on.

Doesn't AMR have 40% more wind tunnel time?

The regs are new, still lots of gains to be made.

Didn't Alpine say they found alot of DF? They're expecting their next upgrade will bring them .6?

[zoroastar]

Yeah but realistically speaking, its unlikely to match Nando's timeline, if thats what we're discussing. The gap's too big to close in the next 2, maybe 3 years ? imo. How good are Dan Fallows and co. beyond the foundational concepts they brought with them is also a variable. I might give it higher odds that AM becomes the fastest cat at some point this decade.

I also have no doubt that if AM is runaway fastest car ever, Stroll will put someone more manageable for Lance in the 2nd seat.

if a +/- 1 second gap isnt able to be closed in less than 2 or 3 years then this set of regs, with the wind tunnel times and cost cap, has completely failed. whether AM (or any other teams) do close that gap is one thing, but it is completely in the realm of possibilities, especially with the jump they have made from last year. i think the new rules have changed the timelines a bit and we havent given it enough time to see the full affect yet. i also think that mercedes wouldnt have gone 7-0 if redbull had access to the mercedes PU 2014-2021 but well probably never know for sure haha

The field behind red bull is actually as closer than I can ever remember in at least 2 decades. Different teams still have different infrastructure and talent so there will always be a difference. Plus it will take a few years before the effects truly bed in.

i agree, the budget cap is working to close up the field already. i think its possible that with the talent being spread around, teams could close to redbull faster than 2026. their wild card is newey though.

[zoroastar]

if a +/- 1 second gap isnt able to be closed in less than 2 or 3 years then this set of regs, with the wind tunnel times and cost cap, has completely failed.

1 second gap might be closed with in-season upgrades. Probably it won´t as RBR will also improve, but 1 second improvement during the season is standard, nothing extraordinary, specially with a new ruleset.

Add to that the extended wind tunnel time at least this season, and I don´t think AM will finish the season fighting RBR, but I hope they will reduce the gap under 5 tenths, so they can fight them in 2024

I know, I´m very optimistic, but at this point... why not?

exactly man. who wouldve thunk fernando would have 3 podiums in the first 3 races when they announced he was switching teams. may as well enjoy it until the bottom falls out ha

[peewon]

You know, if f Ferrari can lose 1 second to RBR, in a few month, we can surely make that up and more.

I don't think there's any comparison between the two.

Sure there is. The lottery too. This is just guessing going on.

Doesn't AMR have 40% more wind tunnel time?

The regs are new, still lots of gains to be made.

Didn't Alpine say they found alot of DF? They're expecting their next upgrade will bring them .6?

There was an external intervention in the form of TD39 which hurt the Ferrari. RB has shown to have the most competent aero development across regulations. Sure its guess work but educated guess work.

[saviour stivala]

RBR have the least amount of wind tunnel time and CFD time this season. - RBR, % aero testing limit = 63. Win tunnel runs = 202. CFD items = 1260. FERRARI. % aero testing limit = 75. Wind tunnel runs = 240. CFD items = 1500. mercedes, % aero testing limit = 80. Wind tunnel runs = 256. CFD items = 1600. This is an 8 week period.

[diffuser]

I don't think there's any comparison between the two.

Sure there is. The lottery too. This is just guessing going on.

Doesn't AMR have 40% more wind tunnel time?

The regs are new, still lots of gains to be made.

Didn't Alpine say they found alot of DF? They're expecting their next upgrade will bring them .6?

There was an external intervention in the form of TD39 which hurt the Ferrari. RB has shown to have the most competent aero development across regulations. Sure its guess work but educated guess work.

I saw where:
RBR has 151 hrs of CFD or Tunnel time.
AMR has 240 hrs.

Think that's till Jan 1 2024. So they got to save some for the RB20. Not sure if that applies with constant regs.

Plus, AMR made up a ton of time to RBR since last year.... They might even be ahead at a track like Monaco or Spain.

[AR3-GP]

Sure there is. The lottery too. This is just guessing going on.

Doesn't AMR have 40% more wind tunnel time?

The regs are new, still lots of gains to be made.

Didn't Alpine say they found alot of DF? They're expecting their next upgrade will bring them .6?

There was an external intervention in the form of TD39 which hurt the Ferrari. RB has shown to have the most competent aero development across regulations. Sure its guess work but educated guess work.

I saw where:
RBR has 151 hrs of CFD or Tunnel time.
AMR has 240 hrs.

Think that's till Jan 1 2024. So they got to save some for the RB20. Not sure if that applies with constant regs.

Plus, AMR made up a ton of time to RBR since last year.... They might even be ahead at a track like Monaco or Spain.

Are we sure it's until Jan 1 2024? I think it gets recalcuated in June where Aston will presumably be P2 or P3 in the WCC and get absolutely hammered compared to their P7 allotment.

[diffuser]

There was an external intervention in the form of TD39 which hurt the Ferrari. RB has shown to have the most competent aero development across regulations. Sure its guess work but educated guess work.

I saw where:
RBR has 151 hrs of CFD or Tunnel time.
AMR has 240 hrs.

Think that's till Jan 1 2024. So they got to save some for the RB20. Not sure if that applies with constant regs.

Plus, AMR made up a ton of time to RBR since last year.... They might even be ahead at a track like Monaco or Spain.

Are we sure it's until Jan 1 2024? I think it gets recalcuated in June where Aston will presumably be P2 or P3 in the WCC and get absolutely hammered compared to their P7 allotment.

That's what I thought too, which is why I said I think but on F1TV "TECH TALK - Can Red Bull be beaten? They said this year.


Oh but later on they mention that it get's reset in June.

For Now it's

     Hours In    Number of    Wind on
Team Wind Tunnel Tunnel Tests Time
RBR          755          605     151
Fer          900          720     180
Merc         950          768     192
AMR         1200          960     240

[organic]

I saw where:
RBR has 151 hrs of CFD or Tunnel time.
AMR has 240 hrs.

Think that's till Jan 1 2024. So they got to save some for the RB20. Not sure if that applies with constant regs.

Plus, AMR made up a ton of time to RBR since last year.... They might even be ahead at a track like Monaco or Spain.

Are we sure it's until Jan 1 2024? I think it gets recalcuated in June where Aston will presumably be P2 or P3 in the WCC and get absolutely hammered compared to their P7 allotment.

That's what I thought too, which is why I said I think but on F1TV "TECH TALK - Can Red Bull be beaten? They said this year.

It is until the middle of the season and they recalculate it July 1st I think

Additionally RB's penalty went into effect in October last year rather than Jan 1st, so the extra 10% reduction in tunnel time will not affect the entire season