2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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organic wrote:
25 Apr 2023, 20:35
diffuser wrote:
25 Apr 2023, 20:25
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Apr 2023, 19:04


Are we sure it's until Jan 1 2024? I think it gets recalcuated in June where Aston will presumably be P2 or P3 in the WCC and get absolutely hammered compared to their P7 allotment.

That's what I thought too, which is why I said I think but on F1TV "TECH TALK - Can Red Bull be beaten? They said this year.
It is until the middle of the season and they recalculate it July 1st I think

Additionally RB's penalty went into effect in October last year rather than Jan 1st, so the extra 10% reduction in tunnel time will not affect the entire season
yep....

This penalty will be fully redeemed on 26 October 2023, after which the team will be allowed to test at full capacity again.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
25 Apr 2023, 20:25
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Apr 2023, 19:04
diffuser wrote:
25 Apr 2023, 18:26


I saw where:
RBR has 151 hrs of CFD or Tunnel time.
AMR has 240 hrs.

Think that's till Jan 1 2024. So they got to save some for the RB20. Not sure if that applies with constant regs.

Plus, AMR made up a ton of time to RBR since last year.... They might even be ahead at a track like Monaco or Spain.
Are we sure it's until Jan 1 2024? I think it gets recalcuated in June where Aston will presumably be P2 or P3 in the WCC and get absolutely hammered compared to their P7 allotment.

That's what I thought too, which is why I said I think but on F1TV "TECH TALK - Can Red Bull be beaten? They said this year.


Oh but later on they mention that it get's reset in June.

For Now it's
     Hours In    Number of    Wind on
Team Wind Tunnel Tunnel Tests Time
RBR          755          605     151
Fer          900          720     180
Merc         950          768     192
AMR         1200          960     240
+1. Every time I see this, I get extremely bullish about Aston Martin's chances. They have a fantastic opportunity to outdevelop Red Bull during this time period before July. It's really a once in a lifetime kind of opportunity to have the 2nd fastest car from the start, while having a considerable development advantage over 1st place.
A lion must kill its prey.

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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     Hours In    Number of    Wind on
Team Wind Tunnel Tunnel Tests Time
RBR          850          682     168      # What number should have been without a penality.
RBR          755          605     151
Fer          900          720     180
Merc         950          768     192
AMR         1200          960     240

In July, all positions staying equal, AMR will take Ferrari's Wind tunnel allowed time.


Just, for the record...."This penalty will be fully redeemed on 26 October 2023, after which the team will be allowed to test at full capacity again." Any WTT after September is pretty useless for the current year.

GoranF1
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Those WT numbers are irrelevant.....teams find ways to be in as much as they need.
FIA can't monitor this
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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GoranF1 wrote:
26 Apr 2023, 15:32
Those WT numbers are irrelevant.....teams find ways to be in as much as they need.
FIA can't monitor this
This is not true at all. There are cameras in every teams’s windtunnel.
A lion must kill its prey.

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
26 Apr 2023, 15:45
GoranF1 wrote:
26 Apr 2023, 15:32
Those WT numbers are irrelevant.....teams find ways to be in as much as they need.
FIA can't monitor this
This is not true at all. There are cameras in every teams’s windtunnel.
Of Course they could find a way to cheat... AGAIN. but if they get caught ....

GoranF1
GoranF1
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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You guys think F1 is a children's fairy tail...
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Nothing stopping them using a full size car in a wind tunnel down the road that’s designed for something else. Who would know?

What’s to stop online CFD drawings done from a home/personal laptop? Some online CFD stuff is pretty powerful.

There’s ways and means around a lot of things.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
26 Apr 2023, 18:21
Nothing stopping them using a full size car in a wind tunnel down the road that’s designed for something else. Who would know?

What’s to stop online CFD drawings done from a home/personal laptop? Some online CFD stuff is pretty powerful.

There’s ways and means around a lot of things.
the cfd point is valid as one could even draw conclusions to help develop your own car from the work Vanja posted here, free of charge and without using your own cfd allocation.

The windtunnel stuff is not easy to hide. Too many whistle blowers. Everyone knows where the windtunnels are. Staff jump between teams all the time. You think they wouldn't expose one another to gain an advantage?

I don't believe fairy tales and know that the budget cap is likely being subverted by 4 teams with the means to do so, but the Wind tunnel stuff is much easier to police.

Sure you can do tangentially related isolated studies that "have nothing to do with F1" but ultimately the most valuable WT runs are the ones using your model and that is what the FIA seek to restrict and can do quite easily between the windtunnel telemetry, the cameras, and whistle blowers.
A lion must kill its prey.

KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Are you guys saying AM has done the jump through cheating? :D Jk

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
26 Apr 2023, 16:07
AR3-GP wrote:
26 Apr 2023, 15:45
GoranF1 wrote:
26 Apr 2023, 15:32
Those WT numbers are irrelevant.....teams find ways to be in as much as they need.
FIA can't monitor this
This is not true at all. There are cameras in every teams’s windtunnel.
Of Course they could find a way to cheat... AGAIN. but if they get caught ....
The last time we were in a discussion ( :wink: :lol: ) you tried to convince me that it would be impossible for Mercedes to supply a different PU to Aston Martin because the holy FIA was so good at their checks.

Now it seems like the shoe is on the other foot when I say the FIA are holy and good at their checks :wink: :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.

KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Fallows dissatisfied with ‘most complicated rules in the history of Formula 1’

https://www.racefans.net/2023/04/26/fal ... formula-1/

The technical regulations Formula 1 introduced last year are too limiting and haven’t been beneficial for the championship, Aston Martin’s technical director Dan Fallows believes.

F1 overhauled its rules in 2022, forcing teams to design completely new cars, in the hope of improving the quality of racing. However Fallows says the result has been a set of rules which are much more restrictive than before and more complicated for the FIA to enforce.
“The regulations we have at the moment have been introduced with the absolute best of intentions and with a lot of very good research behind why we’ve introduced them,” Fallows told an official F1 podcast.

“But we now have a set of regulations that are by far the most complicated in the history of F1 in terms of the length of the regulations – both sporting and technical regulations – and by far the most complicated to actually police, so the FIA’s job is exponentially harder than it has been over the last few years.

“And I just don’t think that’s really been beneficial.”

The restrictiveness of the rules means teams will inevitably produce increasingly similar designs as they try to improve their performance, said Fallows.

“I think we have certainly, as I say, with the best intentions tried to introduce regulations to improve the show. But what we’ve effectively ended up with is a set of regulations that make you design the car a certain way.

“So the reason that a lot of the cars look the same or look very, very similar is that the regulations effectively make you design a car like that. There’s an incredibly complicated set of regulations for the front wing, for example, that are essentially making you design it in a very particular shape.

“Now we have these regulations, not only are the complicated, but they can only be regulated or only be judged by the FIA by referring to CAD as well. So part of the regulations are literally how you constructed the surfaces that go into the shape that you’ve got. Whereas in the past we had regulation boxes and as long as the car comply to those you could do what you like.”

Asked whether he felt the rules offer enough scope for innovation Fallows said: “Honestly, no, I don’t.”

Although many teams’ designs have converged in appearance since the rules were introduced, Red Bull has becoming increasingly dominant over the last nine months. Fallows’ former team have won 13 out of the last 14 grands prix, and shown they are capable of lapping over a second per lap faster than their rivals in race trim.

Fallows said the differences in design which allow Red Bull’s substantial performance advantage are generally minor and obscured from view, making them difficult for fans to appreciate.

“I can’t deny the fact that there is certainly a difference in performance. The truth is that the differences between the cars are in very, very small details, a lot of which are invisible. They’re either actually under the bodywork or they’re in areas of the car which are very, very difficult to see.

“I’m not sure that having these very, very small details being the differentiator is really something we want to see. I would far rather, personally, see totally different cars that have wacky shapes all over them and new, innovative ideas. But I accept that maybe that’s just me.”

“I think that cars that are very visibly different and not just in the sidepod area is good for F1,” he added. “I think that’s what the fans want to see. We’ve always identified, even from the discussions we had about these regulations in the past, that it’s not just a driver formula. People want to watch a sport where the cars are a differentiator.”

Fallows’ team has emerged as the closest threat to Red Bull this season, out-scoring Mercedes and Ferrari over the opening three races. However he does not believe the two teams which were Red Bull’s closest competitors last year have fallen short with their development programmes.

“I’m not sure they’ve underperformed in that they’ve certainly made, I think, a tangible step since last year. It may be not the step they were hoping for, but I think it is a reasonable season development for them.

“The problem is that because Red Bull were clearly the team to beat and were some amount out in front, they both needed, as everybody did, really, to make a bigger step than you otherwise would do during their kind of season’s-worth of development.

“So they may be disappointed from that point of view, but I don’t think it’s fair to say they’ve underperformed. I think everybody has certainly improved, it’s just that unfortunately so have Red Bull, so that’s made their job a little bit harder.”

KimiRai
KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Aston Martin has split its planned upgrade for Baku. Some of it won't debut until a week later in Miami. It's the components that are supposed to bring improvement everywhere and are not tailor-made for the track in Baku.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -upgrades/
New rear wing did arrive though as was promised.

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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KimiRai wrote:
27 Apr 2023, 08:07
Fallows dissatisfied with ‘most complicated rules in the history of Formula 1’.......
All engineers say this since forever and always when new rules are introduced, Newey included. Honestly I think they should shut up with this narrative and just work. Newey in particular has been going on for decades about prescriptive rules, so I think we should never listen to these guys when it comes to strategic decisions in terms of car design and so on. They'd much prefer static rules and a lot more freedom to design anything they want, however we all know where this ultimately leads, massive discrepancies in performance and worse competition. As we're currently seeing there is enough scope for diffentiation between cars still with one team able to pull away, but still they want more and more and more.

NAPI10
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Team seems resolved the drag issue with new RW.Car has descent top speed now