Ferrari SF23

[gordonthegun]

I think this may be interesting… sensor mounted in front of the rear wheel
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202304 ... 01b743.jpg

[gordonthegun]

[gordonthegun]

A clear view of the keel in the diffuser:

[gordonthegun]

I found this drawing by Giorgio Piola but I can't understand for sure what it means.
Has the suspension arm been enlarged?

[nemanja]

There suppose to be new fairing for aerodynamic reasons.

[hollus]

With the season re-starting, a reminder for everyone that the car threads are moderated more strictly than other threads, with the idea that car threads should focus on the hardware and interpretation of how it works. And on the specific car in each car thread, please. We like our car threads shorter, focused and fact dense.

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[FDD]

I found this drawing by Giorgio Piola but I can't understand for sure what it means.
Has the suspension arm been enlarged?

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... ion-1.webp

Quite often Giorgio Piola is drawing non sense.

[Vanja #66]

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-identi ... full-tank/
So the ridge height increases when there is heavy fuel load. Don't think only rear and front wing upgrades will solve this. Seems like definitely need the suspension upgrade ASAP.

I was hoping someone else would write about this pehnomena, it was on my mind for a while. Last year, Ferrari controlled the bouncing, was right on the edge and "got away" with softest possible suspension setup, with a right combination of mechanical grip and ride height on the edge to prevent excessive plank wear. This year, they chose not to pursue this for one or several reasons, which might have to do with PU reliabilty since TD039 is no longer enforced basically. Also, they may have designed the car for slightly lower ride height to begin with, which leaves lot less room for bouncing without bottoming out (something that was often the case with F1-75 early in the season)

So in short, Ferrari is running a suspension which is quite stiff, however in Q they get to a point where they can extract the maximum from the car since they are running fast which increases downforce which lowers the car just right. With extra fuel, they can't run as fast, stiff suspension keeps the car higher then optimal and lap time is slower than usual. One way to get better would be to push much harder, but thanks to FIA, FOM, Ecclestone and Pirelli - you can't have a stint of 20-30 qualifying laps.

With extra fuel weight you can certainly never get to the apex speed you have in Q, no matter how much you push. So, insufficient speed leads to excessive ride height leads to insufficient downforce leads to insufficient speed... How to solve this? Softer suspension? Yes, but then you may have excessive squat, dive, heave and possibly also bouncing/porpoising - altogether and unstable aero platform. So, what do you need? Suspension geometry with more anti-dive and anti-squat to begin with.

Alternatively, you can also do another thing - you can design your floor for slightly less downforce on purpose. A floor that has a few tricks that help it not to choke, stall or otherwise get penalised when your car is running almost on the plank. A floor with a smaller throat length and a location for peak downforce, so you know exactly how it will behave during braking, acceleration and roll - because even slight roll causes a lot of difference in downforce between inside and outside halves...

So - you give up on a few floor downforce points knowingly. But you don't care that much, since you also have a suspension that allows you to run the car really low at all speeds, so you have a predicatable and stable platform that runs low both in Q and in Race. At all times. At all speeds. At all tracks, bumps or no bumps. On all tyres, no matter their stifness... In short - you design an RB18 floor and suspension and further improve it with RB19.

What can Ferrari do with their car right now? Beat Red Bull at their own game? Hardly, they are a year and a half ahead already. Try and redesing the floor and suspension to try and achieve these effects partially, while keeping slightly more floor downforce? Probably the only thing that can be done, since everything else requires complete car overhaul - so no sooner than next year. It will all be in vain if they don't sort out internal issues in strategy and operations department, as well as reaching reliability goals they set for themselves.

[AR3-GP]

I found this drawing by Giorgio Piola but I can't understand for sure what it means.
Has the suspension arm been enlarged?

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... ion-1.webp

Quite often Giorgio Piola is drawing non sense.

The detail is in yellow. There is a trailing edge fairing on the front upper control arm.

[AR3-GP]

What can Ferrari do with their car right now? Beat Red Bull at their own game? Hardly, they are a year and a half ahead already. Try and redesing the floor and suspension to try and achieve these effects partially, while keeping slightly more floor downforce? Probably the only thing that can be done, since everything else requires complete car overhaul - so no sooner than next year. It will all be in vain if they don't sort out internal issues in strategy and operations department, as well as reaching reliability goals they set for themselves.

The car hasn't had reliability issues since Bahrain to be fair so the latter point seems promising.

[AR3-GP]

So in short, Ferrari is running a suspension which is quite stiff, however in Q they get to a point where they can extract the maximum from the car since they are running fast which increases downforce which lowers the car just right. With extra fuel, they can't run as fast, stiff suspension keeps the car higher then optimal and lap time is slower than usual. One way to get better would be to push much harder, but thanks to FIA, FOM, Ecclestone and Pirelli - you can't have a stint of 20-30 qualifying laps.

Wouldn't the solution be to run very stiff, and very low? Such that you are already at the target ground clearance (on the plank), and then you just stay there?

Then perhaps you have some "blow off valves" somewhere in the dampers which allow the heave stiffness to be independent from the corner bump stiffness (so you can ride curbs too).

[scuderiabrandon]

So in short, Ferrari is running a suspension which is quite stiff, however in Q they get to a point where they can extract the maximum from the car since they are running fast which increases downforce which lowers the car just right. With extra fuel, they can't run as fast, stiff suspension keeps the car higher then optimal and lap time is slower than usual. One way to get better would be to push much harder, but thanks to FIA, FOM, Ecclestone and Pirelli - you can't have a stint of 20-30 qualifying laps.

Wouldn't the solution be to run very stiff, and very low? Such that you are already at the target ground clearance (on the plank), and then you just stay there?

Then perhaps you have some "blow off valves" somewhere in the dampers which allow the heave stiffness to be independent from the corner bump stiffness (so you can ride curbs too).

"Alternatively, you can also do another thing - you can design your floor for slightly less downforce on purpose. A floor that has a few tricks that help it not to choke, stall or otherwise get penalised when your car is running almost on the plank. A floor with a smaller throat length and a location for peak downforce, so you know exactly how it will behave during braking, acceleration and roll - because even slight roll causes a lot of difference in downforce between inside and outside halves..."

[deadhead]

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-identi ... full-tank/
So the ridge height increases when there is heavy fuel load. Don't think only rear and front wing upgrades will solve this. Seems like definitely need the suspension upgrade ASAP.

So, what do you need?

... a flexible floor

[LM10]

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-identi ... full-tank/
So the ridge height increases when there is heavy fuel load. Don't think only rear and front wing upgrades will solve this. Seems like definitely need the suspension upgrade ASAP.

I was hoping someone else would write about this pehnomena...

That's a really interesting post, Vanja. Let's see if I've understood this theory.

The F1-75 had decent amount of floor downforce and a soft suspension because the car didn't really care if it was porpoising or not - it kept stable in all conditions and generated enough downforce with higher ride heights.

This year, with the new floor edge rules, it is beneficial to run lower, thus Ferrari built the SF-23 to work with lower ride heights. At the same time the floor still produces decent amount of downforce, so Ferrari is forced to use a stiffer suspension than last year. A stiffer suspension is not a problem for the SF-23 in qualifying as with the high velocity during the lap the car produces enough downforce to keep the car low. But as soon as it's fueled for the race and get's heavy, the lower velocity means less generated downforce and this causes the car not only to be slower and understeery, but also slide around. The consequenses are weak lap times especially at the beginning of the race and less tyre life due to higher deg.

It makes sense because the SF-23 does not only have a tyre deg problem, but in the race it's significantly slower than the RB19 from the get go even on fresh tyres.

If that's actually the case, I'd try everything to keep the superior downforce and try to make the car work in the race too. If it means a complete suspension overhaul which can only be done next season, so be it. That's better than copying RedBull's solution because as you said, RedBull already has got much more knowledge and a car concept in line with that.

[Vanja #66]

That's a really interesting post, Vanja. Let's see if I've understood this theory.

Pretty much that, although I think they solved the balance issues from the first two races. The tyre deg could be an issue due to pushing too hard with heavy car. We've seen two different races from Charles and there was no deg on Sunday since they weren't pushing above the abilities of the tyres. We've seen some deg in the first stint in Bahrain when Charles was pushing to defend from Perez, I don't think there would've been any deg in second stint without DNF - but we'll never know.