2023 car comparison thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
27 Apr 2023, 14:32
AR3-GP wrote:
27 Apr 2023, 14:27
The Merc wing is huge.

Are you sure the Ferrari wing IS the 2022 wing? Are they identical?
Ferrari wing is identical to Baku 22. Merc can still use this wing from Miami 22, they used it last year here also...

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... wing-2.jpg
I can't tell, but this italian site is saying that both RB and Ferrari have new rear wings that we haven't seen before.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... sf-23.html
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Image
Image
Image
𓄀

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Someone ought to work with these:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Image
Image
Image
Last edited by vorticism on 30 Apr 2023, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
𓄀

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Image
Image
𓄀

User avatar
hollus
Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Light going through the rear wing is exclusive to the Alphas.
Rivals, not enemies.

User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
29 Apr 2023, 22:39
The problem I have with this theory is that it's all rather elementary, yet it seems a total mystery to Ferrari, Mercedes, and even Aston Martin who have Dan Fallows.

Also, as has been reported elsewhere, the Haas also has a very powerful DRS system (which goes mostly unnoticed) that has been designed with assistance from a lot of former Ferrari staff.
Different stuff for different teams. Ferrari's wing is 2022 wing, which they designed to be low drag with flap down, just like Canada 22 and Bahrain 23 single-pylon wing. Last year in Baku Q Ferrari was still trailing -5kmh behind RB even before DRS zone, this year they were dead even. Part of the reason of excellent top speed of RB is that its going up all the time, while Ferrari loses e-juice at some point and starts slowing down. I wouldn't be surprised if this Ferrari wing also has a smaller DRS flap by design than allowed by rules, due to overall aerodynamic goals.

Mercedes seems to have gone similar route, due to (still) higher-than-expected chassis drag. The wing they raced this year is definitely not suited for either Jeddah or Baku, but they raced it still - which only confirms they lack a lot of floor downforce. Still, their main plane is also at a very low angle the entire span, so it's not that high on drag. Hamilton's second Q3 lap (the one without the tow) showed only -2kmh vs RB/Ferrari before DRS and -1kmh vs Ferrari after DRS, so it's not that bad at all. Definitely not the primary source of problems for them.

Haas' wing is very good, no doubt. Even the cutout flap had the same effect on top speed like Ferrari's regular flap here - backing up my theory Ferrari wing has smaller flap than possible. Combined with lower angle to begin with and also lacking on PU side, it's a decent explanation for these 4-5kmh difference with DRS on vs RB.

AMR low-downforce wing is very good by design - when it works. Alonso's final SQ3 lap had DRS on the final straight and he was slightly faster than Leclerc the entire straight too. Their chassis is simply a bit draggier than RB for sure, so their top speed is more limited to begin with. It's also very hard to judge Mercedes PU, but Williams keep showing it's right up there on power.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Rear wings for Miami, so far

Image

Image

Image

Red Bull (unsurprisingly) and Aston Martin (surprisingly) going for lower downforce, others going medium. Teams going medium will likely make some experiments with different beam wings, e.g. Ferrari might go with Jeddah/Baku BW etc...
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
04 May 2023, 20:01
Rear wings for Miami, so far



Red Bull (unsurprisingly) and Aston Martin (surprisingly) going for lower downforce, others going medium. Teams going medium will likely make some experiments with different beam wings, e.g. Ferrari might go with Jeddah/Baku BW etc...
It's possible that AMR and RB will evaluate two different wing choices.
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Mark Sutton, motorsport.com:
Miami RWs
Image

Image
Last edited by vorticism on 07 May 2023, 18:59, edited 1 time in total.
𓄀

Venturiation
Venturiation
98
Joined: 04 Jan 2023, 19:48

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Bouncing on the Ferrari but nothing on RB
Image



User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Some similar angles from racefans.net:
Miami quali
Image
Image
Image
Image

Ferrari, Alpine, and Merc running these spoon shaped wings.
Last edited by vorticism on 07 May 2023, 19:46, edited 2 times in total.
𓄀

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Another group of similar angles from racefans.net:
Miami quali
Image
Image
Image
Image

The AM roll hoop much larger (as you all know) than the RB. However the sidepod intakes are also about the same size as the RB, so for whatever reason the AM seems to have more total intake area compared to the RB.

The engine cover looks slightly narrower (either side of driver's shoulders below halo) on the AM. The width of the Alfa Romeo and Merc cannons are noticable here being almost as wide as the beam wings.
𓄀

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

FW43B had short, proto RB18 sidepods.
Sevach wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 15:27
Image
Image
𓄀

User avatar
javalinex
14
Joined: 07 Feb 2022, 03:25

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Toto Wolff said a new suspension is coming..
Image

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2023 car comparison thread

Post

Quite a interesting photo that one. The RB and the AMR both seem to mount the upper wishbone quite high, and it also tapers upwards from the wheel hub to the upper nosecone area.

The Ferrari seems relatively level and im not sure if its the photo, but the Mercedes looks to have ever so slight taper downwards from the wheel hub to the nosecone.

Are the RB and AMR running dual upper wishbones and Ferrari and Merc single? Its hard to tell from the single photo without going hunting through car pages to see whats going on.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.