2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Andres125sx]

Seems like some guys here are just 1 crash away from peddling the “too many mistakes” narrative or bringing up sainz is equal-esque debate over here. The way comments fire in make it look like they enjoy this situation.

That´s better than bashing drivers even when they do no mistakes at all, as you did with Sainz only some posts above

if you have two young driver, you will get these kind of issues. Ferrari need experience driver. Just see how both are making mistake in alternate races. I don't see any good weekend for both the drivers. I think one of them will be kicked out from Ferrari if it continues. Mostly Saniz will be out from Ferrari this year.

Fact: Lecrerc crash
Conclusion: Sainz must be replaced

Yes. because Lecrec is Ferrari boy.

so you first bash a driver who made no mistakes, then complain about people who bash drivers who make mistakes... very sensible

[F1NAC]

Don’t think tyre deg was a big problem for Ferrari today. Sainz had good pace on the medium, but clearly fell off on the hard. Leclerc had some issues. I also though maybe they had reverted to the old floor but then realised they would have had to start from pit lane… either that or his setup was geared too heavily towards quali and was miles off on full fuel load. Either way his pace on the first stint was not great, and lap after lap he was struggling I’m certain micro sectors. I can’t see anyone closing the gap on RB. Hope I’m wrong

Of course no one will close the gap on RB. They have higher DWF, higher straight line speed, excellent tyre management, etc.

As i said Ferrari and Mercedes did a terrible job this winter. This is why the gap is so big.

Check out Leclerc and Sainz faces at the end of the race. They were shocked.

They are getting FIAT(F14T) vibes. Jesus Christ

[Vanja #66]

Leave it to strategy team to mess up Leclerc... How could they possibly think starting on softer compound was going to be better... You start in the middle, you stay as long as possible, avoid traffic after early pit and finish with a lighter car on a faster compound - and with an added benefit of a potential pit under SC!

Max + 8 positions
Hamilton + 7 positions

Ah, if only they knew!

The bottoming he complained about is also worrying, if they really didn't experience that until the race that means the team didn't repair the car and set it up afterwards properly...

The undercut for Sainz was complete amateurism, to let him come out right in the middle of traffic. You make him extend the stint on slower tyre and you kill any undercut advantage you got in the first place. Complete review of their strategy choice process is needed, already two races and the Q in Melbourne were compromised this year, having errors during 60% of race weekends is 59% too much!

[Andres125sx]

Leave it to strategy team to mess up Leclerc... How could they possibly think starting on softer compound was going to be better... You start in the middle, you stay as long as possible, avoid traffic after early pit and finish with a lighter car on a faster compound - and with an added benefit of a potential pit under SC!

Max + 8 positions
Hamilton + 7 positions

Ah, if only they knew!

The bottoming he complained about is also worrying, if they really didn't experience that until the race that means the team didn't repair the car and set it up afterwards properly...

The undercut for Sainz was complete amateurism, to let him come out right in the middle of traffic. You make him extend the stint on slower tyre and you kill any undercut advantage you got in the first place. Complete review of their strategy choice process is needed, already two races and the Q in Melbourne were compromised this year, having errors during 60% of race weekends is 59% too much!

The only reason I can think about for Lecrec starting on medium tire, is a bet for an early SC, which is not crazy on a urban track. A SC on first laps, box for hards, and straight to the checkered flag. Starting on hards would ruin this possibility.

They failed, but it was a sensible strategy, when you are not fighting for the title some victory is the best you can get. I applaud the attempt, starting from 7th you can't expect a great result using same strategy than the rest


About Sainz, the undercut worked perfectly, but if the car is a sitting duck with hards, no strategy will work, and he lost the position again, but the strategy worked perfectly

[Xyz22]

In retrospective, Leclerc starting on hards would have been better. The car had a better balance on that compound for him (opposite of Sainz) and he could have managed the stint on the medium with a lighter car, but again it's easy to say it now. With an early SC Leclerc would have been screwed if he started on the hards.

Clearly this can't continue, though. Ferrari doesn't to add more performance to the car. They need to find a larger working window in which the car operates in a "linear and predictable" way. Having balance shifts in the same corner is crazy.

[Xwang]

I'm wondering if it is, as probably is, a suspension/chassis issue which does not permit to use correctly the tyres on long stint and to appreciate the performances of aero and engine, why Ferrari is recruiting (or trying to) aero personel from RedBull and not suspension/chassis/vehicle dynamics/tyres experts ?

[mendis]

Has anyone heard a proper recovery plan from Fred? This is a totally hopeless situation and there are already rumours of Charles looking out.

[Xwang]

Has anyone heard a proper recovery plan from Fred? This is a totally hopeless situation and there are already rumours of Charles looking out.

If Ferrari keeps performing so badly I, as a Ferrari fan, hope tha Leclerc will quit the team otherwise Ferrari would have ruined the career of three pilots in row (Alonso, Vettel and Leclerc) which would have been able of gaining other F1 titles.

[Shal_Leg16]

One race they are running in between the RBs and AMs next race they cant fooking overtake a HAAS.
What is wrong with them? Do they even have proper technical personnels to doevelop the car and have a good race strategy ?

[continuum16]

Re: MAG/LEC comparison, I have just gone back and watched the first few laps of the GP, when MAG overtook Leclerc twice. (!)

The biggest difference, as Venturiation notes and many others have, is that the Ferrari is bouncing all over the place through S1, while the Haas was much more stable. We know Haas has the same suspension, so it's not exclusively a suspension problem causing porpoising because then the Haas should also be bouncing. I also noticed from the offboards that the Haas was running really low, especially in practice, to the point where you could hear it scraping the ground. Now either Haas has done what Ferrari could not since Bahrain '22 and found a floor design that can run low and stay there, or Ferrari completely whiffed on the setup for this race. I would be surprised if it's the former, but it's not impossible. More likely is that Ferrari messed up the setup.

What is very interesting to me is that externally the VF-23 is quite similar to the France-spec F1-75, at least in the floor/sidepod dept., yet the VF-23 is faster in a straight line than the SF-23 and significantly faster in a straight line than the F1-75 upon which it's based.

2022 Miami Q Max. Speed Trap #s:
LEC: 325.6
SAI: 323.0
MAG: 326.5
MSC: 326.5

2023:
LEC: 336.2
SAI: 333.3
MAG: 338.3
HUL: 338.8

I wouldn't be surprised, as others have noted, if Simone Resta will soon be seen back in red...

[Xyz22]

Leclerc went for the wrong setup, clearly. Understeer on entry, oversteer on exit, insane bouncing, etc. On top of the two crashing that didn't help.

Sainz and his team did a good job on that this weekend.

[AR3-GP]

Re: MAG/LEC comparison, I have just gone back and watched the first few laps of the GP, when MAG overtook Leclerc twice. (!)

The biggest difference, as Venturiation notes and many others have, is that the Ferrari is bouncing all over the place through S1, while the Haas was much more stable. We know Haas has the same suspension, so it's not exclusively a suspension problem causing porpoising because then the Haas should also be bouncing. I also noticed from the offboards that the Haas was running really low, especially in practice, to the point where you could hear it scraping the ground. Now either Haas has done what Ferrari could not since Bahrain '22 and found a floor design that can run low and stay there, or Ferrari completely whiffed on the setup for this race. I would be surprised if it's the former, but it's not impossible. More likely is that Ferrari messed up the setup.

What is very interesting to me is that externally the VF-23 is quite similar to the France-spec F1-75, at least in the floor/sidepod dept., yet the VF-23 is faster in a straight line than the SF-23 and significantly faster in a straight line than the F1-75 upon which it's based.

2022 Miami Q Max. Speed Trap #s:
LEC: 325.6
SAI: 323.0
MAG: 326.5
MSC: 326.5

2023:
LEC: 336.2
SAI: 333.3
MAG: 338.3
HUL: 338.8

I wouldn't be surprised, as others have noted, if Simone Resta will soon be seen back in red...

Great analysis. The straight line speed and DRS proficiency of the Haas which looks externally quite similar is also something which is often ignored, in order to yet again excuse Ferrari and give them cover to push any possible resolution "until next year".

Regarding Simone Resta, you have to ask yourself why he wanted to go to Haas in the first place and if those conditions that saw him leave, would have improved enough for him to return. Maybe Simone just doesn't want all the drama, politics, and Italian media headaches? Maybe he was butting heads with Binotto who is now gone?

If Simone is technical director at Haas, then surely Binotto is the reason he left?

[continuum16]

[...]

I wouldn't be surprised, as others have noted, if Simone Resta will soon be seen back in red...

Great analysis.

Regarding Simone Resta, you have to ask yourself why he wanted to go to Haas in the first place and if those conditions that saw him leave, would have improved enough for him to return. Maybe Simone just doesn't want all the drama and politics? Maybe he was butting heads with Binotto who is now gone?

It's a good point as to why he's not there now. He left in May 2018 for Alfa, when either the unsuccessful late-season developments for the SF71H were being developed or the genreally unsuccessful (IMO, if you take away the engine) SF90 was being developed. He returned in August 2019 when the SF-1000 would have been well into development (although pre-engine debacle), and probably the F1-75 would have been into development, only to leave at the end of 2020 to go to Haas, who improved greatly in 2022 compared to 2019–2021 despite having zero budget and limited personnel, and arguably have taken another step forward in 2023.

Does correlation equal causation? No. But one could certainly read a trend into this if they wanted to.

[AR3-GP]

I just saw this posted in the technical thread, and given our conversation about straight line speed differences and DRS, it's something worthy of query for Ferrari. The Haas has very similar bodylines.

[Vanja #66]

What is very interesting to me is that externally the VF-23 is quite similar to the France-spec F1-75, at least in the floor/sidepod dept., yet the VF-23 is faster in a straight line than the SF-23 and significantly faster in a straight line than the F1-75 upon which it's based.

2022 Miami Q Max. Speed Trap #s:
LEC: 325.6
SAI: 323.0
MAG: 326.5
MSC: 326.5

2023:
LEC: 336.2
SAI: 333.3
MAG: 338.3
HUL: 338.8

I wouldn't be surprised, as others have noted, if Simone Resta will soon be seen back in red...

Actually, Magnussen even reached 340 in one of his slower laps, while Leclerc did 338 in his fastest lap. Speed trap is a bit too early in the back straight. Magnussen reached 336 in his fastest lap. Deployment strategy has a great impact on top speed and Ferrari uses it almost always during acceleration for maximum effect, as did K-Mag in his P4 lap. Here's the situation during the race



Naturally, slipstream has a big effect and influence, however it seemed to even things out. Overall, Haas is more than ok on drag, but lacks downforce. Still, in my view they have a better approach to rear wing design than Ferrari, almost as good as RB.

When F1-75 was launched, I figured they wanted to generate a big low pressure field above beam wing for maximum floor boost hence the big spoon on early wings. But then both 22 and 23 cars work very well with flat(ter) Baku wing, so I have no idea why they kept the spoon for latest wing design. It's not bad with flap down, but flap up shows its simply lacking, since spoon section isn't low drag with its big angle.