FIA Thread

[AR3-GP]

Forever, simply because they know it annoys the crap out of a certain subset of the f1 fan base. It's the same reason why AD 21 is never going to go away!

For as long as the mediocre work of other teams continue and they remain clueless. Corrected that.

Lol such bs... As if the other engine constructors didn't have allowances for RBR to build their engine for 2026 despite already being a great engine and having acquired personnel from other teams, all because RBR went crying to FOM/FIA that they needed to start from scratch and would have quit the sport (same threat for which Ferrari is typically clowned).

Are you aware that Honda will no longer be leasing their engines to Red Bull racing come the end of 2025? Red bull do not "have" an engine for 2026. These engines are shipped in crates from Japan between every GP and they will no longer be doing this after 2025. The only component that Red Bull have assembled is the energy store. This is because it is not legal to fly this kind of high capacity electrical storage device on an airplane from Japan.

That's why Red Bull is building a new PU in partnership with Ford for 2026. This has been heavily reported. Have you actually missed all of this?

[dialtone]

For as long as the mediocre work of other teams continue and they remain clueless. Corrected that.

Lol such bs... As if the other engine constructors didn't have allowances for RBR to build their engine for 2026 despite already being a great engine and having acquired personnel from other teams, all because RBR went crying to FOM/FIA that they needed to start from scratch and would have quit the sport (same threat for which Ferrari is typically clowned).

Are you aware that Honda will no longer be leasing their engines to Red Bull racing come the end of 2025? Red bull do not "have" an engine for 2026. These engines are shipped in crates from Japan between every GP and they will no longer be doing this after 2025. The only component that Red Bull have assembled is the energy store. This is because it is not legal to fly this kind of high capacity electrical storage device on an airplane from Japan.

Can you show me the law from Japan where sending high capacity batteries is illegal? Honda was making the whole engine when they entered F1 with McLaren, only past couple of years was RBR making the battery.

Sending high capacity batteries is "illegal"/difficult for any plane in any country because they can ignite. Same as shipping 90% alcohol via plane, you can't. I wasn't aware of any specific issues for japan only, especially because Japan mostly buys Boeing planes and the 787s have a massive Lithium battery in the plane, which incidentally caught fire a few times causing some issues, so whatever law japan has would need to work around space for the plane I suppose.

https://www.iata.org/en/publications/st ... gulations/

That's why Red Bull is building a new PU in partnership with Ford for 2026. This has been heavily reported. Have you actually missed all of this?

I'm aware. It's a big exaggeration to say that they have no knowledge of the engine, not only has Red Bull Powertrains famously hired a good chunk of the Honda team, but they hired plenty of key people from Mercedes and other engine manufacturers.

Furthermore it was a choice from RBR to leave Honda and go with Ford at the end of the day:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... ZR9j8.html

So, with a bit of joking, to me this sounds like some mediocre engine manufacturer remains clueless and can't figure it out in time.

[mendis]

Forever, simply because they know it annoys the crap out of a certain subset of the f1 fan base. It's the same reason why AD 21 is never going to go away!

For as long as the mediocre work of other teams continue and they remain clueless. Corrected that.

Lol such bs... As if the other engine constructors didn't have allowances for RBR to build their engine for 2026 despite already being a great engine and having acquired personnel from other teams, all because RBR went crying to FOM/FIA that they needed to start from scratch and would have quit the sport (same threat for which Ferrari is typically clowned).

Or as if FIA didn't mess with dominant teams in the past, like both Ferrari and Mercedes and RBR itself. Tell me, did RBR protest the DAS or was their attitude that Mercedes had a great idea and they were going to work hard to match it with something better?

People will ride RBR cheating the same number of years that they do for other teams cheating, and if you don't like it you better drink some camomille to endure it.

Totally irrelevant points for the original discussion, besides being personal and frustrated rants, which I needed to report.

[dialtone]

Where exactly are they personal? The highlighted sections have nothing personal in them. There's no judgement of your persona, just that what you wrote is nonsense and that you should drink a calming drink if it gets on your nerves that people bring up that RBR cheated.

[zoroastar]

im not a fan of merces, hamilton or redbull, but i think redbull cheated knowingly and would do it again if they felt they needed to. itsthat kind of shady organization if you ask me haha. it sucks because i wanna like christian horner, he seems like an alright guy. that whole backtrack that he did after viamently denying any wrong doing was kinda gross. redbull would be winning anyway because they have newey, but i dont trust em.

[DChemTech]

Forever, simply because they know it annoys the crap out of a certain subset of the f1 fan base. It's the same reason why AD 21 is never going to go away!

For as long as the mediocre work of other teams continue and they remain clueless. Corrected that.

Lol such bs... As if the other engine constructors didn't have allowances for RBR to build their engine for 2026 despite already being a great engine and having acquired personnel from other teams, all because RBR went crying to FOM/FIA that they needed to start from scratch and would have quit the sport (same threat for which Ferrari is typically clowned).

Or as if FIA didn't mess with dominant teams in the past, like both Ferrari and Mercedes and RBR itself. Tell me, did RBR protest the DAS or was their attitude that Mercedes had a great idea and they were going to work hard to match it with something better?

People will ride RBR cheating the same number of years that they do for other teams cheating, and if you don't like it you better drink some camomille to endure it.

What's the point of bringing DAS up? RB might have protested it, but it was not banned.
It was only outlawed for next season - but I don't see anything wrong with rule changes between seasons. It's in-season rule changes that are problematic (look at last year for example - RB dominance really started after the summer change)

[DChemTech]

Im wondering how long people are still gonna atribute every RB's success down to those 400k from 2021 lol

2.1 million dollars, to be precise. 400k would have been the amount if they had claimed tax credit.

Not sure how much of an effect this had on RB18's and furthermore on RB19's development, but it surely helped them a lot winning the title in 2021. I think I'm not going out on a limb by saying that they would have not won the title in 2021 without cheating the budget cap - considering how it literally was decided on the last lap of the season.

Which means the additional 1.7M for sure did not influence car development - it was something they were eligible to, it was something others got, so it's logical they accounted for it in their planning. Then they screwed up in applying for it, which meant they had a more expensive year than they should have - and that they did formally breach the budget cap for which they were punished - but it did not give them 1.7M more to spend on car development than other teams.
It's more like when two persons buy the same TV at different vendors - one might spend more because the vendors may run different prices (and one may go over their intended budget at that), but they don't get better equipment for it.

So yes, RB broke the cap. Yes, they were punished. No, this breach did not make them dominant. Their dominance is just a matter of coping with the rule changes better than others - and a bit of mid-season reg changes in last season sprinkled in, as before Spa 2022, Ferrari was certainly in the mix. As mentioned by others, it was also Fer and MB not gaining over winter. And yes, that leads to a boring season, but not an exceptional one considering the history of F1, and I do think that the combination of a budget cap, that avoids teams from winning simply based on the size of their pockets, reduced development time for frontrunners, and the law of diminishing returns will lead to more interesting competition in the coming years. Add to that the more interesting midfield and better overtaking, and at least we have better races than the funeral processions of 2014-2020, even if one team is far ahead.

As for this particular race, it was not totally bad. At least the out-of-order starting positions led to some action, Magnussen did well, and great to see Alonso out in front again.

[ValeVida46]

What's the point of bringing DAS up? RB might have protested it, but it was not banned.
It was only outlawed for next season - but I don't see anything wrong with rule changes between seasons. It's in-season rule changes that are problematic.

2013 tyre changes?


https://theparcferme.com/pirelli-want-u ... the-title/

[DChemTech]

What's the point of bringing DAS up? RB might have protested it, but it was not banned.
It was only outlawed for next season - but I don't see anything wrong with rule changes between seasons. It's in-season rule changes that are problematic.

2013 tyre changes?


https://theparcferme.com/pirelli-want-u ... the-title/

your point?

[ValeVida46]

What's the point of bringing DAS up? RB might have protested it, but it was not banned.
It was only outlawed for next season - but I don't see anything wrong with rule changes between seasons. It's in-season rule changes that are problematic.

2013 tyre changes?


https://theparcferme.com/pirelli-want-u ... the-title/

your point?

A team pressured Pirelli into changing the tyre construction, which then led to them winning 11 of the next 13 races.
Does this pass your standard, what with it being an in season change.

[DGP123]

Can someone show me the way to the Miami GP race thread? Thanks!

It’s a dire season, whereby nothing of note is happening, and both titles have already been wrapped up. No surprise it ends back at the cost cap.

[DChemTech]

2013 tyre changes?


https://theparcferme.com/pirelli-want-u ... the-title/

your point?

A team pressured Pirelli into changing the tyre construction, which then led to them winning 11 of the next 13 races.
Does this pass your standard, what with it being an in season change.

As I said, in season changes are problematic.

[basti313]

2013 tyre changes?


https://theparcferme.com/pirelli-want-u ... the-title/

your point?

A team pressured Pirelli into changing the tyre construction, which then led to them winning 11 of the next 13 races.
Does this pass your standard, what with it being an in season change.

Well, the most in season changes backfired so far with the strongest team being stronger in the end. So where is your point?
In 2013 RedBull was mighty in the R&D with 1000 design changes per week. There is no point in discussing the tire change, they would have been dominant in the second half in any case.

Even Toto knows this as they profited the same in the past and openly said this season that he does not want a mid-season rule change. I see it the same...if they mandate something like a minimum ride height there is more risk in Merc falling behind Haas or Alpine than a chance of catching RedBull.

[ValeVida46]

Well, the most in season changes backfired so far with the strongest team being stronger in the end. So where is your point?
In 2013 RedBull was mighty in the R&D with 1000 design changes per week. There is no point in discussing the tire change, they would have been dominant in the second half in any case.

Even Toto knows this as they profited the same in the past and openly said this season that he does not want a mid-season rule change. I see it the same...if they mandate something like a minimum ride height there is more risk in Merc falling behind Haas or Alpine than a chance of catching RedBull.

My point is clear.
I'm not asking for rule changes mid season.
I am saying it's been done before.

There are many many examples where after 1 season rules were changed to try balance the sport. End 2014 being a prime example.
It beats sitting on your hands and having hopium of some fantasy convergence dream.

[AMG.Tzan]

What people saying "F1 has always been dominated by a team" don't understand is the new rules apparently!

The budget cap and the sliding scale development were put in place to reduce the chance of this "dominance" happening again! Same goes for the pretty prescriptive aero rules of 2022 and the "pretty big penalties" if you cheat the budget cap! Well if you look from the 2nd team down to the 10th, FIA has pretty much succeeded! Teams are really close together and even backmarkers and midpack teams have been able to close the gap to teams like Ferrari and Mercedes! Now what's wrong you'll ask!

Well there's a certain team that cheated the budget cap by an amount that can easily bring it a raft of big upgrades throughout a season! Now they've gained an advantage big enough that any development penalty won't harm them until a new rule change! Not to mention that the penalty they've got just doesn't matter since they can still develop their car but only bring the updates that really work!

So yes there is something wrong with F1 in 2023 and that isn't Red Bull itself but the FIA who don't implement penalties the way the said they would! I remember Brawn saying that if you cheat the budget cap the implications will be really big! Well I guess nothing happened with Red Bull...!

And we should also take into account that because of the budget cap no team can develop enough to catch Red Bull now! In previous rules instead Mercedes, Ferrari and even Aston Martin now would just throw in a lot of money and they would catch up to Red Bull...

What a proper penalty would be you'd ask though! Well freeze Red Bull's development for a year (October 22-October 23) and lower their budget cap allowance by the amount they cheated (2.2M).