2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[CjC]

Well Stella kinda has a free hit doesn’t he?
He’s taken over from Seidl, tore up his technical structure and advised Zac to fire Key.
So this season it’s all acknowledging the weaknesses and working hard to address them but if there isn’t any improvement by seasons end (Stella’s own timeframe) then he’ll have to face the same music.
Its just so frustrating that it has to get SO bad and so frequently for the management to so act is such a drastic way. I’m just hoping it’s not going to be a season like the 2015 to 2018 era

I think the old way of thinking of themselves is still embedded in the team. I mean thinking they are still a top team going through a glitch so basically it only needs tweaking not a ground up fix

The value of the McLaren brand is so powerful that the team has to be considered a top team...Ferrari is currently the 4th fastest team...are they considered a midfield team? of course not.

McLaren has to reinvent itself as a team and apparently its not going to be just an upward trajectory. The years of Withmarsh, Goss, Morris and Ron have really taken away years of evolution from the team...

We just have to thank the racing gods that we have Stella. He really is the man for the job. I have said just after Seidl departed that promoting Stella is going to be a blessing in disguise.

That is a very valid point about the brand and comparing them to Ferrari. I for one do have Mclaren down as a midfield team, I guess in my opinion the reason why I don’t see Ferrari as one though is because they are a works team.

I hope Stella can and does change the team for the better as much as anyone but only timid will tell.

I suppose Mclaren my become an attractive employer to any potential aerodynamicists when the new wind tunnel comes along because at the very least people will want to see it/ work with it

[genarro]

I think the old way of thinking of themselves is still embedded in the team. I mean thinking they are still a top team going through a glitch so basically it only needs tweaking not a ground up fix

The value of the McLaren brand is so powerful that the team has to be considered a top team...Ferrari is currently the 4th fastest team...are they considered a midfield team? of course not.

McLaren has to reinvent itself as a team and apparently its not going to be just an upward trajectory. The years of Withmarsh, Goss, Morris and Ron have really taken away years of evolution from the team...

We just have to thank the racing gods that we have Stella. He really is the man for the job. I have said just after Seidl departed that promoting Stella is going to be a blessing in disguise.

That is a very valid point about the brand and comparing them to Ferrari. I for one do have Mclaren down as a midfield team, I guess in my opinion the reason why I don’t see Ferrari as one though is because they are a works team.

I hope Stella can and does change the team for the better as much as anyone but only timid will tell.

I suppose Mclaren my become an attractive employer to any potential aerodynamicists when the new wind tunnel comes along because at the very least people will want to see it/ work with it

Valid point about ferarri being a works team... However look at Alpine. They are not even the best midfield team for the last couple of years (except last year) ... And yet they are a works team.

For winning you have to develop a winning culture within the team. And I think that McLaren on that front are ahead of ferrari (blame culture) and alpine (lack of motorsport culture)

Again the game is on for 2026 for McLaren. The new structure will be on full power by then and we will see...

[haza]

Some things to pick up from Miami

1: top speed was much much better relative to last week with a more high downforce set up an was the case across all Mercedes powered cars Lewis seemed to breeze past leclerc and Aston clocking fasting overall top speed

2: whatever set up changes happened from Friday evening to Saturday vastly reduced the cars pace I heard the delta loss happened over 2-3 corners maybe the team anticipated a wet race and set the car up accordingly

3: the overall lack of pace this weekend in my eyes is a positive the good performance last week in Baku could have give the team a false sense of light at end of the tunnel and although it did show a step forward (at Baku) the car just simply didn’t work during the race the team saw and recognised this, the MCL60 lacks in almost every arena bar corner exits i believe McLaren need to consider some options on there concepts one of them being the canted down front upper wish bones Aston and red bull both have this and benefit from the lack of anti dive on the front end this helps a lot during braking and it shows with Aston and rbr’s performance over a lap. Also I think the team nead to revise the rear of the car it’s clear it’s has an overall lack of efficient downforce and they use the rear wing to compensate for that at a cost of drag the redbull is so efficient in a straight line because it uses the drs to stall the airflow going to the rear wing, beam wing and diffuser reducing drag if McLaren can adapt this solution it could massively help there straight line issues without sacrificing downforce

[McG]

Again the game is on for 2026 for McLaren.

I know you are trying to be positive with this statement it seems quite depressing when digested.

2026 is a long time away and a long time in between to add to the 10 years since anyone took McLaren seriously. One other good thing in addition to the new WT is that some teams are very good at being midfield teams. Survival might be the wrong word but they are definitely set up with lower expectations in every area so it doesn't sting when finishing in the midfield or worse.

[genarro]

Again the game is on for 2026 for McLaren.

I know you are trying to be positive with this statement it seems quite depressing when digested.

2026 is a long time away and a long time in between to add to the 10 years since anyone took McLaren seriously. One other good thing in addition to the new WT is that some teams are very good at being midfield teams. Survival might be the wrong word but they are definitely set up with lower expectations in every area so it doesn't sting when finishing in the midfield or worse.

For 2026 i meant for them to be a full on world title contender. However for that to happen they have to improve to be 4th fastest by the end of the season and then next year's car have to be on the same level like AM is this year.

[continuum16]

The value of the McLaren brand is so powerful that the team has to be considered a top team...Ferrari is currently the 4th fastest team...are they considered a midfield team? of course not.

McLaren has to reinvent itself as a team and apparently its not going to be just an upward trajectory. The years of Withmarsh, Goss, Morris and Ron have really taken away years of evolution from the team...

We just have to thank the racing gods that we have Stella. He really is the man for the job. I have said just after Seidl departed that promoting Stella is going to be a blessing in disguise.

That is a very valid point about the brand and comparing them to Ferrari. I for one do have Mclaren down as a midfield team, I guess in my opinion the reason why I don’t see Ferrari as one though is because they are a works team.

I hope Stella can and does change the team for the better as much as anyone but only timid will tell.

I suppose Mclaren my become an attractive employer to any potential aerodynamicists when the new wind tunnel comes along because at the very least people will want to see it/ work with it

Valid point about ferarri being a works team... However look at Alpine. They are not even the best midfield team for the last couple of years (except last year) ... And yet they are a works team.

For winning you have to develop a winning culture within the team. And I think that McLaren on that front are ahead of ferrari (blame culture) and alpine (lack of motorsport culture)

Again the game is on for 2026 for McLaren. The new structure will be on full power by then and we will see...

If we compare McLaren to Ferrari on the midfield team status argument, I think the difference is not so much that one is a works team and one is not. I think it's more about how Ferrari has won multiple races per year in 4 of the last 6 years, meanwhile McLaren has won one race in over a decade, and that was a bit of a Williams 2012 Barcelona-type situation (not an outright fluke but hardly a repeatable result).

McLaren really is at an inflection point right now, where in the next 24 months they either pull themselves out of a cycle of continued underperformance like Ferrari in the late 90s, or they keep trying and failing to reinvent themselves and follow the path of Williams by continually reminding us how great they used to be.

I mean look at Williams' trajectory since 2000:
Join forces with major German engine supplier as works team > Fight for the championship > Lose factory support > Sleep around for engine suppliers while the team slips to the back of the midfield, including returning to an old flame with limited success > Sign long contract with Mercedes > Team fights at front of the midfield for a few years > Slowly lose ground again > Hire new technical personnel with hope of rebound > Fail, fire "new" technical leaders > Sell team > Begin constant management recycling as backmarker

One could argue that, starting at step 2, McLaren have done all but the last couple, so far.

[Ben1980]

Mclaren are Everton or Leeds.

Big team with a great history, lots of fans but have fallen from their perch, doesn't mean they aren't still a big team.

Red Bull are Man City / Newcastle. Lots of money pumped them up and made them great.

Ferrari are Liverpool/ Arsenal - massive teams, great fan base, will occasionally get it right, can't quite compete with the biggest teams.

Merc are Chelsea. Blew up quick as a team, now having to find a way to get back.

Alpine are Spurs. Should be better but also pretty much where you would expect.

AM are Brighton, good investment but still looks strange being that high in the table.

[mwillems]

Aston Martin have demonstrated it is possible to engineer your way up the table in the current formula and in this budget cap. They aren't at RB levels but they have a platform to push on and will have plenty of development time to close that gap.

Mclarens time will come and they will at some point get close to the front and have an opportunity to become a challenger again. Think Ducati in MotoGP.

But it will only come when the whole of the development and engineering team are being used most effectively with the right leaders and with the right levels of required knowledge at all levels of the team. The Wind Tunnel, Simulator will enhance that team of people but it won't cover their flaws or fix their issues. Indeed since they went on a hiring spree this past six months for all we know we have the team in place bar Sanchez, only time will tell. Unless someone comes out and talks about the inner workings of Mclaren, which they never do, we won't really understand what is actually happening inside the team that is holding them back.

Good luck to all of them this year, if we still have issues, we adjust and go again, until it works.

[mwillems]

Mclaren are Everton or Leeds.

Big team with a great history, lots of fans but have fallen from their perch, doesn't mean they aren't still a big team.

Red Bull are Man City / Newcastle. Lots of money pumped them up and made them great.

Ferrari are Liverpool/ Arsenal - massive teams, great fan base, will occasionally get it right, can't quite compete with the biggest teams.

Merc are Chelsea. Blew up quick as a team, now having to find a way to get back.

Alpine are Spurs. Should be better but also pretty much where you would expect.

AM are Brighton, good investment but still looks strange being that high in the table.

I get your analogies but we are the third most successful team in F1 history with the most fan following (F1 Global Survey of most popular team), we are not Everton or Leeds

Arsenal perhaps after a long drought is more like it!

Ferrari have won the most in F1 so definitely not a Liverpool that can't compete.

Also, Newcastle have won almost Zero in their entire History

But enough of football, we are still a big team which is why we are one of the most popular teams still, and will remain so for some time and why we are probably a top team in Sponsorships despite the lack of success.

[Ben1980]

Mclaren are Everton or Leeds.

Big team with a great history, lots of fans but have fallen from their perch, doesn't mean they aren't still a big team.

Red Bull are Man City / Newcastle. Lots of money pumped them up and made them great.

Ferrari are Liverpool/ Arsenal - massive teams, great fan base, will occasionally get it right, can't quite compete with the biggest teams.

Merc are Chelsea. Blew up quick as a team, now having to find a way to get back.

Alpine are Spurs. Should be better but also pretty much where you would expect.

AM are Brighton, good investment but still looks strange being that high in the table.

I get your analogies but we are the third most successful team in F1 history with the most fan following (F1 Global Survey of most popular team), we are not Everton or Leeds

Arsenal perhaps after a long drought is more like it!

Ferrari have won the most in F1 so definitely not a Liverpool that can't compete.

Also, Newcastle have won almost Zero in their entire History

But enough of football, we are still a big team which is why we are one of the most popular teams still, and will remain so for some time and why we are probably a top team in Sponsorships despite the lack of success.

It was a bit rushed. Then rethought it afterwards, and thought more Arsenal for Mclaren.

And Ferrari being Liverpool/ Man Utd. Biggest team by far, no matter if they are winning.

And Newcastle just based on the money being pumped in by a rich benefactor. Like Man City.

[mclaren111]

https://www.pitpass.com/75100/Ferrari-a ... s-Miami-GP


Hits the nail on the head...

[mwillems]

Mclaren are Everton or Leeds.

Big team with a great history, lots of fans but have fallen from their perch, doesn't mean they aren't still a big team.

Red Bull are Man City / Newcastle. Lots of money pumped them up and made them great.

Ferrari are Liverpool/ Arsenal - massive teams, great fan base, will occasionally get it right, can't quite compete with the biggest teams.

Merc are Chelsea. Blew up quick as a team, now having to find a way to get back.

Alpine are Spurs. Should be better but also pretty much where you would expect.

AM are Brighton, good investment but still looks strange being that high in the table.

I get your analogies but we are the third most successful team in F1 history with the most fan following (F1 Global Survey of most popular team), we are not Everton or Leeds

Arsenal perhaps after a long drought is more like it!

Ferrari have won the most in F1 so definitely not a Liverpool that can't compete.

Also, Newcastle have won almost Zero in their entire History

But enough of football, we are still a big team which is why we are one of the most popular teams still, and will remain so for some time and why we are probably a top team in Sponsorships despite the lack of success.

It was a bit rushed. Then rethought it afterwards, and thought more Arsenal for Mclaren.

And Ferrari being Liverpool/ Man Utd. Biggest team by far, no matter if they are winning.

And Newcastle just based on the money being pumped in by a rich benefactor. Like Man City.

I'm laughing with you, not at you

[Ben1980]

I get your analogies but we are the third most successful team in F1 history with the most fan following (F1 Global Survey of most popular team), we are not Everton or Leeds

Arsenal perhaps after a long drought is more like it!

Ferrari have won the most in F1 so definitely not a Liverpool that can't compete.

Also, Newcastle have won almost Zero in their entire History

But enough of football, we are still a big team which is why we are one of the most popular teams still, and will remain so for some time and why we are probably a top team in Sponsorships despite the lack of success.

It was a bit rushed. Then rethought it afterwards, and thought more Arsenal for Mclaren.

And Ferrari being Liverpool/ Man Utd. Biggest team by far, no matter if they are winning.

And Newcastle just based on the money being pumped in by a rich benefactor. Like Man City.

I'm laughing with you, not at you

Well that's a positive.

And we all need sonething to laugh at, at the moment!

[f1rules]

They should make a Mclaren version as their story fits perfectly for the last 10 years.

[genarro]

Mclaren are Everton or Leeds.

Big team with a great history, lots of fans but have fallen from their perch, doesn't mean they aren't still a big team.

Red Bull are Man City / Newcastle. Lots of money pumped them up and made them great.

Ferrari are Liverpool/ Arsenal - massive teams, great fan base, will occasionally get it right, can't quite compete with the biggest teams.

Merc are Chelsea. Blew up quick as a team, now having to find a way to get back.

Alpine are Spurs. Should be better but also pretty much where you would expect.

AM are Brighton, good investment but still looks strange being that high in the table.

I get your analogies but we are the third most successful team in F1 history with the most fan following (F1 Global Survey of most popular team), we are not Everton or Leeds

Arsenal perhaps after a long drought is more like it!

Ferrari have won the most in F1 so definitely not a Liverpool that can't compete.

Also, Newcastle have won almost Zero in their entire History

But enough of football, we are still a big team which is why we are one of the most popular teams still, and will remain so for some time and why we are probably a top team in Sponsorships despite the lack of success.

It was a bit rushed. Then rethought it afterwards, and thought more Arsenal for Mclaren.

And Ferrari being Liverpool/ Man Utd. Biggest team by far, no matter if they are winning.

And Newcastle just based on the money being pumped in by a rich benefactor. Like Man City.

Like i said at least we can be optimistic about the future. Unlike Ferrari, who seems are spiraling out of control, firing chief engineers and implementing the culture of fear in the team.