FIA Thread

[chrisc90]

AMG - how much LapTime do you think £1.6 or 400k gets you if you exclude the tax rebate?

Teams have had 2 full seasons to catch back up, including a development penalty for RB aswell over winter, and in season this year. So you can effectively half the overspend over 2 seasons if you look at it that way

[DChemTech]

AMG - how much LapTime do you think £1.6 or 400k gets you if you exclude the tax rebate?

Teams have had 2 full seasons to catch back up, including a development penalty for RB aswell over winter, and in season this year. So you can effectively half the overspend over 2 seasons if you look at it that way

add to that last part that the dominance of RB only started after the mid-season changes of Spa, long after the alleged overspending. You'd expect that if the overspending was directly responsible for the dominance of RB, they'd be clearly ahead early 2022 (and perhaps lose some ground after as other teams catch up).

[chrisc90]

AMG - how much LapTime do you think £1.6 or 400k gets you if you exclude the tax rebate?

Teams have had 2 full seasons to catch back up, including a development penalty for RB aswell over winter, and in season this year. So you can effectively half the overspend over 2 seasons if you look at it that way

add to that last part that the dominance of RB only started after the mid-season changes of Spa, long after the alleged overspending. You'd expect that if the overspending was directly responsible for the dominance of RB, they'd be clearly ahead early 2022 (and perhaps lose some ground after as other teams catch up).

Exactly. It just doesn’t tie in with a overspend that was 2 seasons ago, 2021.

What should be more of a talking point is the potential for a overspend in 2022. Anyone know when we expected to hear of 2022 season?


There is also the consideration that in October 2022 RB got the ABA/penalty, so any potential over the winter season, and still to now is effectively numbed compared to what usually happens for in season development.

[Big Tea]

AMG - how much LapTime do you think £1.6 or 400k gets you if you exclude the tax rebate?

Teams have had 2 full seasons to catch back up, including a development penalty for RB aswell over winter, and in season this year. So you can effectively half the overspend over 2 seasons if you look at it that way

They probably did not just pluck that amount out of the air, it was what they needed to fulfil a purpose.
The difference between doing what they wanted to do or no due to the cap, which is what its there for
To me, its like being on track and getting close to the wall. You can get as close as you like, but at that point it is serious.

[Just_a_fan]

There is also the consideration that in October 2022 RB got the ABA/penalty, so any potential over the winter season, and still to now is effectively numbed compared to what usually happens for in season development.

By October, the next car is basically done and dusted from a design perspective. The major components will be signed off and going forward to construction by the time the ABA penalty actually kicked in. The breach penalty and "winner's penalty system" ought to have an effect on the 2024 car more than anything. Having said that, the 2023 is decently far ahead so the team can focus what resources they have on the 2024 car to minimise the penalties' effects.

That's the benefit a team might get from an overspend - they get a little further ahead than maybe they would have done otherwise and they get to use that benefit for a period of time whilst others try to catch up.

[chrisc90]

So how long do you expect a ‘benefit’ to last? Given nearly a year and a third into 2 seasons.

Not to mention there’s been a in season rule change AND floor/throat height changes in 6months.

[Polite]

2013 tyre changes?


https://theparcferme.com/pirelli-want-u ... the-title/

your point?

A team pressured Pirelli into changing the tyre construction, which then led to them winning 11 of the next 13 races.
Does this pass your standard, what with it being an in season change.

and Ferrari lost the championship.

[ValeVida46]

That 400k again....
We have no physical evidence to verify what has been given as an explanation either. Secondly other British based teams will also utilise this function and be privy to the same time scales as Red Bull.
So if Red Bull were outside of the cap because of the tax rebate they have grounds to sue the tax authorities for sporting, brand or business damages. Many companies do litigate HMRC in such instances and do so under duty of care and negligence pretexts, with a variety of high profile victories. But where is the noise about this?
Crickets.

[dialtone]

For as long as the mediocre work of other teams continue and they remain clueless. Corrected that.

Lol such bs... As if the other engine constructors didn't have allowances for RBR to build their engine for 2026 despite already being a great engine and having acquired personnel from other teams, all because RBR went crying to FOM/FIA that they needed to start from scratch and would have quit the sport (same threat for which Ferrari is typically clowned).

Or as if FIA didn't mess with dominant teams in the past, like both Ferrari and Mercedes and RBR itself. Tell me, did RBR protest the DAS or was their attitude that Mercedes had a great idea and they were going to work hard to match it with something better?

People will ride RBR cheating the same number of years that they do for other teams cheating, and if you don't like it you better drink some camomille to endure it.

What's the point of bringing DAS up? RB might have protested it, but it was not banned.
It was only outlawed for next season - but I don't see anything wrong with rule changes between seasons. It's in-season rule changes that are problematic (look at last year for example - RB dominance really started after the summer change)

Purely about the arrogance of saying that other teams are mediocre and clueless when in reality every team is creative and when too creative their are beat back.

I think RBR did a great job but there's really no need to attack any of the other teams, like Mercedes, that dominated the past decade and saw RBR and their fans complain about said domination.

[Sieper]

This thread is ridiculous. Miami 2023 GP hasn’t even been casually mentioned for over 3 pages.

<mod edit, this and pages above were moved here from the Miami GP page>

[dans79]

I think RBR did a great job but there's really no need to attack any of the other teams

Someone should tell Horner that, he runs his mouth every single chance he gets now.

[chrisc90]

I think RBR did a great job but there's really no need to attack any of the other teams

Someone should tell Horner that, he runs his mouth every single chance he gets now.
https://i.ibb.co/M6Ymsyt/345310176-2609 ... 2367-n.jpg

Thats just winding the others up though. Horner does it at near enough every opportunity. He wound Zak up about Danny Ric being ready to jump in the car at a moments notice, and they had fattened him back up a bit. Or other week when Toto was on about drivers being #1 and #2. He said that we do what Mercedes do, only we do it better.

Some of the lines are golden. Never serious, just a lot of tongue in cheek banter.

[AMG.Tzan]

AMG - how much LapTime do you think £1.6 or 400k gets you if you exclude the tax rebate?

Teams have had 2 full seasons to catch back up, including a development penalty for RB aswell over winter, and in season this year. So you can effectively half the overspend over 2 seasons if you look at it that way

Clearly enough to at least overcome porpoising for example!

It isn’t just a coincidence that all the teams had to deal with it yet Red Bull never experienced porpoising! Having said that by not having to deal with porpoising they had all the development time to develop their car properly throughout 2022!

I’m not saying their 2021 overspend built them the RB19 as you may suggest! What I’m saying is that they got a head start while all the other teams were scrambling with porpoising and trying to find a clear direction! They found their own direction instantly and that’s why their so far ahead now!

Just like Mercedes did with their engines back in 2014! Look how many years it took everyone else to catch up even without budget and development limitations…

[vorticism]

re: Horner posts above. Put yourself in his shoes. Do you know how vindicated he and the team must feel? RB knew they were the top chassis/aero constructors. And then the hybrid V6 fiasco went on an on and on as F1 had its identity crisis. Well, the sport's not out of the woods yet but at least the engines are less of a factor now which puts the team back where they were ten seasons ago, trouncing the competition.

The "drinks company" (surely you all remember that playfully used honorific, ha) built a phenom which trounced the established teams and they only got to see 4 WCCs for their efforts due to the 200kg lithium ion oil burners being implemented for questionable reasons.

[ValeVida46]

re: Horner posts above. Put yourself in his shoes. Do you know how vindicated he and the team must feel? RB knew they were the top chassis/aero constructors. And then the hybrid V6 fiasco went on an on and on as F1 had its identity crisis. Well, the sport's not out of the woods yet but at least the engines are less of a factor now which puts the team back where they were ten seasons ago, trouncing the competition.

The "drinks company" (surely you all remember that playfully used honorific, ha) built a phenom which trounced the established teams and they only got to see 4 WCCs for their efforts due to the 200kg lithium ion oil burners being implemented for questionable reasons.

If one could ever feel "vindicated" through cheating, the problem isn't engines.