European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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TimW
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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Edax wrote:
03 Dec 2022, 13:22

Yes and no. Here grid flexibility is provided by fast switching NG plants who take the load during peak electricity hours. For an EV you choose when you charge, and variable prices typically drive people to the off hours when prices are low. So I would argue that while it is an overall increase, EV’s actually receive a higher percentage of renewables.

But if you go by 100% fossils, which is fair. Hypothetically if you would trade in a petrol car for an electric car and an electric generator, and use that to charge your car, you would still be more efficient in most real world scenario’s.
Still, if you stop driving your EV car today, that would not reduce the amount of renewable energy produced by a single kWh.

That could change with a smart grid and when more frequently renewable can cover 100% of demand.. Then the fleet of EV could charge are those 100% times. Also the EV fleet could take over grid services that otherwise a wind farm would provide, and renewable energy production could actually gain efficiency.

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hollus
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
03 Dec 2022, 11:30
at present in the EU EVs run on c.75% fossil-fueled electricity
I saw that sentence and immediately went into come on mode, cannot be...
...then I went to google. Wow, I really thought we were doing better by now. But really, it is about 75%.

Then I thought, well, here in Danmark, and probably in Tesla-land Norway, we are surely doing better?!
Well, it is "only" 65% for Denmark. Glups.

A long way to go still...
Rivals, not enemies.

johnny comelately
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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From Stanford University
The changes needed cannot happen so quickly for several reasons, these have to be acknowledged.

"The barriers to environmental sustainability are not only technical. They are also political. Passing laws that lower emissions, creating incentives for technological innovation, and striking alliances and treaties across countries — all require political agreements. Progress on environmental sustainability requires understanding politics. It requires an understanding of political institutions and political actors, and of how issues of sustainability evolve within political systems."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND7CePORGnA

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hollus
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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Let's not drift into politics, please.
Rivals, not enemies.

johnny comelately
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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hollus wrote:
03 Dec 2022, 22:15
Let's not drift into politics, please.
It is mentioned as it is a highly relevant aspect to this transition which needs remembering, otherwise you have a hollow discussion. But it's presence here is finite, just to acknowledge the part it plays. The end.

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Andres125sx
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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hollus wrote:
03 Dec 2022, 16:18
Tommy Cookers wrote:
03 Dec 2022, 11:30
at present in the EU EVs run on c.75% fossil-fueled electricity
I saw that sentence and immediately went into come on mode, cannot be...
...then I went to google. Wow, I really thought we were doing better by now. But really, it is about 75%.

Then I thought, well, here in Danmark, and probably in Tesla-land Norway, we are surely doing better?!
Well, it is "only" 65% for Denmark. Glups.

A long way to go still...
Just to put this data into perspective, with a 75% fossil-fueled electricity EV still reduce emissions significantly compared to ICE.

The benefit into the cities is even higher, as they reduce toxic fumes thrown into people´s lungs 100%, reducing health and respiratory problems drastically. That´s not only a benefit for health of people who live into cities, there´s also an economic benefit/saving as less people will need assistance, treatment, medicins, surgery, etc.

That´s with 75% fossil fuelled electricity, now imagine when this percentage is significantly reduced in next years/decades... :D


About the political part... I get sick of politicians, they´ve been ignoring the problem for decades, and now they´re overreacting and trying to show they´re the only solution... when in reality they´re the only problem. They´ve switched from inaction to populism, and that´s the best way to make people think what they say is absurd and unneccesary, when in reality they have tons of data, and real world experience, and scientific reports to prove their point, but they´re so useless they don´t know how to use data and prefer using populism #-o :-#

DDopey
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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In the Netherlands we now finally come into a situation where it sinks in that we will not reach desired green energy with wind and solar (and others). So we are going to build some Nuclear Power plants.

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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DDopey wrote:
04 Dec 2022, 19:03
In the Netherlands we now finally come into a situation where it sinks in that we will not reach desired green energy with wind and solar (and others). So we are going to build some Nuclear Power plants.
Without drifting too far from the topic, in Europe there is a need (and probably happens) for international networking. Hopefully with the EU regulating the price. The Danish energy island seem to be very innovative.
"The two energy islands will produce more green energy (wind power) than Denmark need. This means that Denmark will end up with a surplus of electricity, which can exported to our neighbouring countries, contributing to the green transition beyond Denmark’s borders"
https://ens.dk/en/our-responsibilities/ ... gy-islands

gruntguru
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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Andres125sx wrote:
04 Dec 2022, 12:41
. . . The benefit into the cities is even higher, as they reduce toxic fumes thrown into people´s lungs 100%, reducing health and respiratory problems drastically.
Not only that - there has been research which shows that transition to EV will reduce the urban heat island effect - reducing city temperatures and air conditioning energy requirements. Direct heat rejection to the environment is about 1/3 for EV compared to ICE. (A "coal-powered" EV has the heat engine located far from the city, rejecting waste heat somewhere else - plus you have regen braking)
je suis charlie

Ferry
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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Ford tells you exactly how much CO2 and fuel that EVs can save

https://electrek.co/2022/12/21/ford-tel ... -evs-save/

And Tesla broke the 53 year old record for bestselling car I Norway

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Big Tea
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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A very interesting item at 11.40 of this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr0Q_LGrQcg&t=705s

Apparently the 'loss' of vehicle emissions fails to degrade methane, a strong 'greenhouse gas'

Reminds me of what was at one time my sig.
You can not win, you can not even break even, and you cannot even stay out of the game
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

gruntguru
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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Big Tea wrote:
22 Dec 2022, 23:19
A very interesting item at 11.40 of this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr0Q_LGrQcg&t=705s

Apparently the 'loss' of vehicle emissions fails to degrade methane, a strong 'greenhouse gas'
Apparently a reduction in NOx and CO going into the atmosphere is the problem.
We could always start removing catalytic converters!
je suis charlie

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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At 50 years old Carlos Checa is having another crack at the Dakar, his Astara Concept 01 vehicle is using a LS7 with a restrictor of 37 point 2 mm, has these interesting features about their fuel:

Sustainable Fuel.
Once again, we have chosen sustainable fuel for Dakar 2023, but this time we will use a 90% proportion. In other words, almost all the emissions of our road cars will be neutral.

E-fuel production is based on obtaining synthesis gas -through the use of renewable energies – which is subjected to successive chemical transformations that result in an eco-friendly liquid hydrocarbon which is easy to use, store and transport.

E-fuel is carbon neutral: it has no environmental impact. The CO2 emitted to the atmosphere during combustion is the same as what has been captured from the air during the production process. Furthermore, it does not emit solid waste or microparticles.

Like fossil fuels, e-fuel is able to store an enormous amount of energy in a very small, very lightweight size: one litre of e-fuel contains 10,752 kWh. Just 9.3 litres of this fuel can store the same amount of energy as a 100-kWh battery, which is 55 times heavier. The energy effi ciency of sustainable fuel is 12% higher than gasoline.

E-fuel can be stored and transported at ambient pressure and temperature, just like conventional fossil fuels and lubricants. Thanks to this, e-fuel can make use of the current transport and fuel distribution infrastructure (tanker trucks, pipelines, service stations…).

Furthermore, it is fully compatible with current internal combustion engines. In other words, it can power vehicles, airplanes and ships, which can keep operating in a sustainable, environmentally friendly manner.

Once the refi ning process is completed, e-fuel can completely replace conventional fuels and can be used as “e-gasoline”, “e-diesel”, “e-kerosene” and “e-lubricant”. e-fuel can also be mixed with conventional fuels and lubricants in any desired proportion, as its chemical composition is the same.

We will also measure our carbon footprint during the rally, but this year we will be even more committed compared to the previous edition, as e-fuel is an ecological, sustainable fuel thanks to its low emissions, both in the production phase and in its use, and solves the challenges of the energy transition concerning the storage and transportation of renewable energies.
Carbon footprint

In 2022, we showed that we were the most sustainable team at Dakar, auditing and more than offsetting our carbon footprint. Now, we’re setting the bar even higher. The ASTARA TEAM also wants to be an example of sustainability in the world of competition at Dakar 2023.

We are coming back to compete at the highest level with the least environmental impact, without an enormous expenditure of resources, putting the best possible solution on the ground in terms of performance and environmental protection.

This is our commitment, and we want to prove it with words and also facts. In 2023, the ASTARA TEAM will once again measure and report the carbon footprint generated in Dakar.

This processing of accounting and reporting the emissions from the ASTARA TEAM’s participation in 2023 will follow the standardized measurement protocols (GHG Protocol, ISO 14064) and will be revised by a renowned independent entity.

The GHG Protocol establishes 3 possible scopes when measuring the carbon footprint.

Scope 1: direct GHG emissions. For example, emissions coming from combustion in boilers, ovens, vehicles and so on, which are owned or controlled by the entity in question. This also includes leaked emissions (e.g., air conditioning leaks, methane leaks from pipes and so on).
Scope 2: Indirect GHG emissions associated with generating electricity acquired and consumed by the organization.
Scope 3: other indirect emissions. Some examples of activities in Scope 3 include the extraction and production of materials that the organization acquires, the work trips through external means, the transportation of raw materials, fuel and products (for example, logistical activities) carried out by third parties and the use of products or services offered by other parties.

In 2022 our measurements involved scopes 1 and 2. This year, we will also include Scope 3. At the end of the competition, we will create a full report of our carbon footprint and we will more than offset it like we did last year.
https://www.astarateam.com/en/the-car-01-concept/

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etusch
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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etusch
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Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035

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Another hydrogen project. These are signs of limits of battery powered electric vehicles. Maybe they don't see much improvement room for batteries.
Future of MotoGP? Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki to collaborate on small hydrogen engines
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/10264 ... en-engines