Mercedes W14

[smith100s]

Do these changes help with traction off the corner? Season starting W14 seemed weak in this area especially compared to Aston with similar mechanical drive train.

[NoDivergence]

Do these changes help with traction off the corner? Season starting W14 seemed weak in this area especially compared to Aston with similar mechanical drive train.

Potentially the new suspension

[AR3-GP]

What is this? .

https://i.postimg.cc/ZK8C3QM7/image.png

A turning vane / VG.

yes I understand that. My fascination with it is that normally you don’t think something like that is allowed considering the spirit of the barge board ban.

I thought the rules excluded devices like this and you never see them in other cars so I’m always gobsmacked when Merc stick a wing somewhere that no one else has. Is that legal? (It presumably is..)

[Just_a_fan]

What is this? .

https://i.postimg.cc/ZK8C3QM7/image.png

A turning vane / VG.

Haha yes I understand that. My fascination with it is normally you don’t think something like that is allowed considering the spirit of the barge board ban.

It surprised me when I saw it there, too. No doubt there's a something in the regs that allows it. I guess others haven't done similar because their designs are working the air differently.

[Venturiation]

What is this? .

https://i.postimg.cc/ZK8C3QM7/image.png

The zerobargeboard

[LeveragedTiger]

While all the focus is on the sidepods and front suspension, it appears they have also reprofiled the shape of the rear of the venturi tunnels heading into the diffuser. They appear narrower and taller. Although the usual caveats that the angle of the photos isn't the same so could be distorted by perspective.

[Venturiation]

There is an opening near the floor stay

[AR3-GP]

There is an opening near the floor stay
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw_iHLcXgAU ... name=large

tire temp sensors?

[Andi76]

Quite a decent direct comparison in side by side illustration here, of front suspension geometry shift.

This is the game changer that alone will half the gap to RB imo.

Downside will be poorer tyre and brake warm-up for qualy and on lap 1 of the race on front limited circuits.

If it were so simple that a simple anti-dive suspension would be the gamechanger, then everyone would do it. Thanks to the media, many people think that a suspension system alone thar is known for many, many decades will change the world (in this case, F1). It doesn't. There are so many things that need to be considered here that are related to this and that need to be coordinated so that this come close to even something like a big advantage. Otherwise, everyone would just do that and everything would be fine.

I do not know if you are familiar with the concept of jacking in the context of roll centre and pitch centres placements. Anti-geometries are about generating counter-torques, but the vertical force component also lifts the chassis. And when it comes to maintaining the orientation of the aeroplatform in relation to pitch, it's also about the impact on vehicle height. This all has to be considered and, as should now be clear, Red Bull's secret cannot lie in this suspension alone (and that you can drive lower). Anti-geometry also introduces certain dynamic compromises to performance. that need to be considered and balanced. Some of this can only be achieved with a new Moncoque.Without Anti-Geometry, all the pitching moment is reacted to by the springs. The Anti-Geometry shifts a good part of it to the very stiff suspension members, whose softest part and weakest link are the tires. Therefore, it is also wrong to assume that anti-geometry would necessarily cause the tires to heat up less. During heavy braking, the sudden loading of the tires in this transition phase can result in oscilations in the unsprung mass. The average pressures of the contact patch reduce, which can lead to a "peaky" feeling in the tires.In addition to these disadvantages in braking, another effect of this geometry is that the inertia of the sprung mass is incorporated into the wheel's response to road disturbances. This has a similar effect to the example above and the tire is able to generate less grip. The presence of the sprung mass also causes the wheel to move longitudinally during extension and compression, which in turn leads to a dynamic change in wheelbase. This affects the suspension geometry under these conditions, as the caster angle affects parameters such as the mechanical trail. Antidive locks up the suspension travel under braking which is not to good. Any anti effect (roll or squat/dive) is going to take away a certain amount of grip due to higher load fluctuation rate. So one should aim for similar anti-roll and anti-dive percentages to give the driver a similar feeling of the grip level in both cases.

Otherwise the driver will not have confidence in the car which feels uneven. I hope that these explanations, in addition to the disadvantages, also make it clear why, contrary to what now seems to be common public opinion, you can't just build an anti-dive suspension on the car. There are many other parts of the car that need to be tuned. Which also explains why not every team simply builds these suspensions on the car. Because then you quickly end up with a much worse car than before. This suspension is therefore certainly not a game changer for Mercedes and will not bring any huge leaps in time. Without a new chassis tuned to it, there is no chance of that. With a few other necessary changes, it may bring an advantage of 0.2 or 0.3 tenths (or the complete opposite), but it is impossible to be a gamechanger, and Red Bull's "secret" is not its anti-dive suspension alone. There's far more to it than that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw9XyAGXwAI ... ame=medium

Bye bye slimpods, chunky cousins of zeropods... Too bad, I really wanted Merc to make them work.

The floor attachment line looks to follow the current floor, so we might see later another updated floor design with completely flat sides, like AMR.

Yeah, bye bye Zero/Slimpods. Normally it's nice to be right, especially after what some people said about the Zeropods being gone by 2023, but I would have preferred to keep the variety of concepts. But it is also very positive that Mercedes' current solution is not a Red Bull copy as some had feared, but includes both Ferrari and Red Bull solutions and completely own ways. Can it be that Mercedes has put a big focus on rear tire squirt management?

[Hoffman900]

Quite a decent direct comparison in side by side illustration here, of front suspension geometry shift.

This is the game changer that alone will half the gap to RB imo.

Downside will be poorer tyre and brake warm-up for qualy and on lap 1 of the race on front limited circuits.

If it were so simple that a simple anti-dive suspension would be the gamechanger, then everyone would do it. Thanks to the media, many people think that a suspension system alone thar is known for many, many decades will change the world (in this case, F1). It doesn't. There are so many things that need to be considered here that are related to this and that need to be coordinated so that this come close to even something like a big advantage. Otherwise, everyone would just do that and everything would be fine.

I do not know if you are familiar with the concept of jacking in the context of roll centre and pitch centres placements. Anti-geometries are about generating counter-torques, but the vertical force component also lifts the chassis. And when it comes to maintaining the orientation of the aeroplatform in relation to pitch, it's also about the impact on vehicle height. This all has to be considered and, as should now be clear, Red Bull's secret cannot lie in this suspension alone (and that you can drive lower). Anti-geometry also introduces certain dynamic compromises to performance. that need to be considered and balanced. Some of this can only be achieved with a new Moncoque.Without Anti-Geometry, all the pitching moment is reacted to by the springs. The Anti-Geometry shifts a good part of it to the very stiff suspension members, whose softest part and weakest link are the tires. Therefore, it is also wrong to assume that anti-geometry would necessarily cause the tires to heat up less. During heavy braking, the sudden loading of the tires in this transition phase can result in oscilations in the unsprung mass. The average pressures of the contact patch reduce, which can lead to a "peaky" feeling in the tires.In addition to these disadvantages in braking, another effect of this geometry is that the inertia of the sprung mass is incorporated into the wheel's response to road disturbances. This has a similar effect to the example above and the tire is able to generate less grip. The presence of the sprung mass also causes the wheel to move longitudinally during extension and compression, which in turn leads to a dynamic change in wheelbase. This affects the suspension geometry under these conditions, as the caster angle affects parameters such as the mechanical trail. Antidive locks up the suspension travel under braking which is not to good. Any anti effect (roll or squat/dive) is going to take away a certain amount of grip due to higher load fluctuation rate. So one should aim for similar anti-roll and anti-dive percentages to give the driver a similar feeling of the grip level in both cases.

Otherwise the driver will not have confidence in the car which feels uneven. I hope that these explanations, in addition to the disadvantages, also make it clear why, contrary to what now seems to be common public opinion, you can't just build an anti-dive suspension on the car. There are many other parts of the car that need to be tuned. Which also explains why not every team simply builds these suspensions on the car. Because then you quickly end up with a much worse car than before. This suspension is therefore certainly not a game changer for Mercedes and will not bring any huge leaps in time. Without a new chassis tuned to it, there is no chance of that. With a few other necessary changes, it may bring an advantage of 0.2 or 0.3 tenths (or the complete opposite), but it is impossible to be a gamechanger, and Red Bull's "secret" is not its anti-dive suspension alone. There's far more to it than that.

This.

Aero pitch sensitivity, especially at braking has been known for 45 years now and is a big reason why active suspension (with Lotus) was even tried.

There is even a good story about by Willem Toet how Michael Schumacher was less sensitive to aero pitch induced instabilities at the braking point where Eddie Irvine was. Fixing it, Eddie Irvine found tenths where Michael just found it to take less thought.

Everyone acting like this is new when I can open a Carroll Smith book up and read about anti-dive suspensions from the 1970s.

It’s like the phrase of the week (until someone in the media learns another old term they didn’t know existed).

[wjpbill]

There is an opening near the floor stay
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw_iHLcXgAU ... name=large

tire temp sensors?

Looks like some kind of tunnel that accelerates the air travelling down the side pod.

The front end looks open and then there’s a shaped slot. Might achieve the same effect as a vacuum cleaner car cleaner pointy nozzle tool but in reverse.

[Hoffman900]

There is an opening near the floor stay
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw_iHLcXgAU ... name=large

tire temp sensors?

Looks like some kind of tunnel that accelerates the air travelling down the side pod.

The front end looks open and then there’s a shaped slot. Might achieve the same effect as a vacuum cleaner car cleaner pointy nozzle tool but in reverse.

I think it’s likely tire temp sensors. I don’t see how a duct like you’re imaging it fits in the rules.

[organic]

There is an opening near the floor stay
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw_iHLcXgAU ... name=large

tire temp sensors?

Looks like some kind of tunnel that accelerates the air travelling down the side pod.

The front end looks open and then there’s a shaped slot. Might achieve the same effect as a vacuum cleaner car cleaner pointy nozzle tool but in reverse.

No sorry this isn't possible

[Hoffman900]

tire temp sensors?

Looks like some kind of tunnel that accelerates the air travelling down the side pod.

The front end looks open and then there’s a shaped slot. Might achieve the same effect as a vacuum cleaner car cleaner pointy nozzle tool but in reverse.

No sorry this isn't possible

This.

[AR3-GP]

Not even in Newey’s wildest dreams would that be legal