Red Bull RB19

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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aleks_ader
90
Joined: 28 Jul 2011, 08:40

Re: Red Bull RB19

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
27 May 2023, 21:39
Stu wrote:
27 May 2023, 21:34
AMG.Tzan wrote:
27 May 2023, 21:30
This floor looks so developed which pretty much explains Red Bull's pace!

The photos don’t give a clear indication of what is really happening with the airflow because of perspective and shadows creating illusions!

Does the floor have two kick lines or is it just shadows playing games with my eyes? I get the feeling they’re trying to create two diffusers one in front of the other if that makes any sense really…! Also I think they’re using every single cm of the permitted underbody dimensions!

P.S. I find it interesting that the team with the lowest by far development time can create such a complex underbody! This can’t have been designed in one go really! But anyway, that’s a discussion for a different thread probably…
It is an evolutionary development of what they used last year.
Probably, but my thinking being that we’re only on the second year of ground effect tunnel cars…that floor looks like it’s from 2025 really :lol:

Anyway, it’s a work of art! Can’t imagine what they would have created had it not been for budget caps and development restrictions! :oops:
Just no. Please stop. I would argue that last years floor is more advanced than anything now on grid even. So yeah makes totally sense that their concept witch wasn't hurt by any TD or any other regulated metric can be developed/refined further. Even under slight reduction of CFD hours. Engineers nailed it. And RB had always its way to use very sculped and quite (curvy, even sensual LOL) shapes in its aerodynamics surfaces. Its interesting seemingly even in some way very organic and evolutionary development. Scary uncanny valley stuff.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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aleks_ader
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011, 08:40

Re: Red Bull RB19

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
28 May 2023, 06:15
Gracias Checo.
He took one for a team. Hahah
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

BlueCheetah66
BlueCheetah66
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Joined: 13 Jul 2021, 20:23

Re: Red Bull RB19

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aleks_ader wrote:
28 May 2023, 08:20
AMG.Tzan wrote:
27 May 2023, 21:39
Stu wrote:
27 May 2023, 21:34


It is an evolutionary development of what they used last year.
Probably, but my thinking being that we’re only on the second year of ground effect tunnel cars…that floor looks like it’s from 2025 really :lol:

Anyway, it’s a work of art! Can’t imagine what they would have created had it not been for budget caps and development restrictions! :oops:
Just no. Please stop. I would argue that last years floor is more advanced than anything now on grid even. So yeah makes totally sense that their concept witch wasn't hurt by any TD or any other regulated metric can be developed/refined further. Even under slight reduction of CFD hours. Engineers nailed it. And RB had always its way to use very sculped and quite (curvy, even sensual LOL) shapes in its aerodynamics surfaces. Its interesting seemingly even in some way very organic and evolutionary development. Scary uncanny valley stuff.
I'd even argue that there is not that much visible change to the tunnels from last year. There obviously might be some changes to the cross section shape of the tunnel and diffuser, but we wouldn't know from any of the pictures. Apart from that, the only really visible changes are the edge wing and the strakes, both of which were changes we were aware of.

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chrstphrln
7
Joined: 10 Apr 2022, 10:27
Location: Germany

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Image

Are these holes?

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chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Red Bull RB19

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chrstphrln wrote:
28 May 2023, 11:43
https://ibb.co/FHqwLzN

Are these holes?
No - just lighting.

From a earlier post...

Image
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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ing.
63
Joined: 15 Mar 2021, 20:00

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Seems to me the mouse hole is benefiting RB’s aggressive aft-most (second) kick/venturi which has an aggressive expansion into an adverse pressure gradient.

That aft venturi reminds me of the Porsche 956 forward venturi—which used the “Singer-dent” just aft of it—and is being used for some targeted DF spike at the rear axle.

Also wondering if RB are using this to maybe choke the flow to the diffuser when at low rear ride height to get their high Vmax?

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Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Ok... Someone needs to find the vid of Max's onboard from lap 60-62 and tell me when he's entering the Monaco tunnel that his car is not using traction control. The dash lights told the tale....😒

napoleon1981
napoleon1981
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Joined: 12 Sep 2021, 17:19

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Was his traction control light flashing? The hey FIA im cheating light? I saw max powersliding through that section....... deliberatly breaking traction to slide through there.

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Zynerji wrote:
28 May 2023, 17:15
Ok... Someone needs to find the vid of Max's onboard from lap 60-62 and tell me when he's entering the Monaco tunnel that his car is not using traction control. The dash lights told the tale....😒


If YouTube don’t block it
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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AMG.Tzan
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Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 01:35
Location: Greece

Re: Red Bull RB19

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chrisc90 wrote:
28 May 2023, 17:33
Zynerji wrote:
28 May 2023, 17:15
Ok... Someone needs to find the vid of Max's onboard from lap 60-62 and tell me when he's entering the Monaco tunnel that his car is not using traction control. The dash lights told the tale....😒


If YouTube don’t block it
Although I would love to find something illegal on this car, there’s nothing wrong here! He’s already sliding out of the corners so I don’t think there’s any traction control system kicking in there..
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Red Bull RB19

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chrisc90 wrote:
28 May 2023, 17:33
Zynerji wrote:
28 May 2023, 17:15
Ok... Someone needs to find the vid of Max's onboard from lap 60-62 and tell me when he's entering the Monaco tunnel that his car is not using traction control. The dash lights told the tale....😒


If YouTube don’t block it
Thank you. Am I wrong for saying that even with the poor sound quality. I can still hear it?

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Red Bull RB19

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All teams are using the engine mapping / deployment as a form of traction control. None of this is a secret

It’s laid out here:

Low-level Online Control of the Formula 1 Power Unit with Feedforward Cylinder Deactivation'

Co-authored with Ferrari.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.00372

Abstract:

" Since 2014, the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile has prescribed a parallel hybrid powertrain for the Formula 1 race cars. The complex low-level interactions between the thermal and the electrical part represent a non-trivial and challenging system to be controlled online. We present a novel controller architecture composed of a supervisory controller for the energy management, a feedforward cylinder deactivation controller, and a track region-dependent low-level nonlinear model predictive controller to optimize the engine actuators. Except for the nonlinear model predictive controller, the proposed controller subsystems are computationally inexpensive and are real time capable. The framework is tested and validated in a simulation environment for several realistic scenarios disturbed by driver actions or grip conditions on the track. In particular, we analyze how the control architecture deals with an unexpected gearshift trajectory during an acceleration phase. Further, we demonstrate how an increased maximum velocity trajectory impacts the online low-level controller. Our results show a suboptimality over an entire lap with respect to the benchmark solution of 49 ms and 64 ms, respectively, which we deem acceptable. Compared to the same control architecture with full knowledge of the disturbances, the suboptimality amounted to only 2 ms and 17 ms. For all case studies we show that the cylinder deactivation capability decreases the suboptimality by 7 to 8 ms. "

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Red Bull RB19

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I can hear what you mean from yt clip.

That though is classic "tramp" as a tyre gets around it's limit and depending on the amount of pure traction it can reach.

Most vehicles will do that under certain criteria as the torque breaches the traction it will take, tyre release then causes the carcass of the tyre to unwind from load loss, to then be repeated as it tries to grab again.

Just clobbering it with wide open throttle will pass straight through that limit and really spin them fast, then you don't hear that noise/frequency.

Likely using a reduced torque map along with possibly more throttle progression in a wet map setting too.

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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Farnborough wrote:
28 May 2023, 18:03
I can hear what you mean from yt clip.

That though is classic "tramp" as a tyre gets around it's limit and depending on the amount of pure traction it can reach.

Most vehicles will do that under certain criteria as the torque breaches the traction it will take, tyre release then causes the carcass of the tyre to unwind from load loss, to then be repeated as it tries to grab again.

Just clobbering it with wide open throttle will pass straight through that limit and really spin them fast, then you don't hear that noise/frequency.

Likely using a reduced torque map along with possibly more throttle progression in a wet map setting too.
Sounds reasonable. Thanks!

Andi76
Andi76
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Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Venturiation wrote:
27 May 2023, 23:33


What amazes me most about the bottom of the RB19 is the plank. Its almost "burned" from front to back, just after a few laps. I wonder how it's possible that they don't get any problems with plank wear here...but anyway - if you compare the plank with those of Ferrari and Mercedes you can see exactly on this "burned" plank that they (can) drive much lower. Even if I can not understand that they have no problems with plank wear If the wooden plank already looks like this after a few laps....