2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

Surely "Binotto's Ferrari" was far from perfect, but I think it was still the best Ferrari since late 2006.

Have to strongly disagree here, 2017-18 seasons were the strongest since 2007 even if Seb threw away a few wins and loads of points. Alonso absolutely maximised 2010 season and even then the team focused on Webber instead of Seb (I honestly still don't understand how they thought Mark was a bigger threat than Seb) in the last race and team threw away the Championship, although the cars in 17-18 were more competitive than F10. Until 2022, I can't remember so many strategic blunders and complete lack of understanding the race of Ferrari in a single season from at least 2000.

I think he reffered to a new suspension(suspension that is new from the start of the season) on SF23 vs F175

Yes

[Sevach]

I hope they find good hints on the Red Bull floor of what can be done for the car to perform well on various ride heights, weights...

[aleks_ader]

Arguably race management in this year is much better. Just car doesn't have inherently any pace to make any strategic decision work IMO.

I would argue today unless they would nailed uncertain weather pitstop with inters they maximised as much they could.

[aleks_ader]

All this higher expectations and delusions are laughable. LEC is often overperforming in Q that reflects in many pole positions witch just inflates impressions and hides true weak points. Also mantra about good mechanical grip needs too stop from mainstream media and its fans. They simply dont have good compromise beween Q and R setups. I would argue new simulator that come online is not fully dialled in. Or is used incorrectly. Anyway Ferrari nowadays need to operate pragmatically in order to maximise results and future developments. I can see some pragmatism in their decisions. At least in track operations. What will happen in R&D area we dont know. Hiring of high level RB engineers FAILED spectacularly.

[Andi76]

Have to strongly disagree here, 2017-18 seasons were the strongest since 2007 even if Seb threw away a few wins and loads of points. Alonso absolutely maximised 2010 season and even then the team focused on Webber instead of Seb (I honestly still don't understand how they thought Mark was a bigger threat than Seb) in the last race and team threw away the Championship, although the cars in 17-18 were more competitive than F10.

Well, I actually have to agree with you here, and to say since 2006 was probably a bit of an exaggeration. But the team was on the right track and technically on a level that has rarely been seen in all these years. Everything else, the mistakes regarding race strategy etc. are "fine tuning" of a team that could have been fixed with the certainly necessary steps. And to be honest, I don't know what's better - to be completely off the mark every second or third race, or not to get a single weekend right at all, as is currently the case.

He said that the car is literally garbage, the mechanics to be completely redone and the floor is very basic.

I think you shouldn't take people too seriously who basically say "this floor looks very basic, that means it's garbage" or "wow that floor looks complex that's good". Basic or simple look does not mean bad, complex look does not mean good. And finally, it's also a question of concept. And how does he know exactly how Ferrari's mechanics work? I don't think a journalist can judge that, and if it was really that bad, they wouldn't have competed for pole in Monaco. It's more about the interaction between tires and suspension. And that is very complex and goes far beyond simple mechanics.

[Vanja #66]

And to be honest, I don't know what's better - to be completely off the mark every second or third race, or not to get a single weekend right at all, as is currently the case.

Of course it's better to only be off the mark on occasion like early last year. But the fact remains their setup at that period was excellent - but limited, in the same way it is now. The sample was too small to make a definitive judgment at the time and was largely skewed with excellent pace of Leclerc in Monaco in wet and the way Hard tyre didn't work on any car in Hungary - at the same time Ferrari used it. I was slightly biased believing it was slightly off setup on occasion at the time, since I haven't recently seen such a strong, race-winning car having such a limited working window. So it had be setup! But it wasn't...

However, Miami and Monaco dispelled any doubts - Ferrari doesn't have a handle on tyres enough to compete for Championships. This wasn't the case in 2017-18 at all, so it is in fact something that went downhill during Binotto's tenure.

[Andres125sx]

Sainz throwing away the podium potentially..

Did you watch the race?

Sainz podium was done when Ferrari called him into pits, despite using hard tires, much earlier than other cars with medium tires. Ocon pitstop was a bit slow (4. something) so they assumed they´d pass him, despite the 2 seconds advantage before the pitstop, and obviously that was not the case and they did exit the pitlane behind Ocon again

After the race Vasseur said they were protecting from Hamilton, opposite to the radio call "pit to pass Ocon"

Basically Ferrari don´t know where their right foot is, but I know some of you will blame Sainz whatever he or the team do. Nothing new around here

[Xyz22]

Sainz throwing away the podium potentially..

Did you watch the race?

Sainz podium was done when Ferrari called him into pits, despite using hard tires, much earlier than other cars with medium tires. Ocon pitstop was a bit slow (4. something) so they assumed they´d pass him, despite the 2 seconds advantage before the pitstop, and obviously that was not the case and they did exit the pitlane behind Ocon again

After the race Vasseur said they were protecting from Hamilton, opposite to the radio call "pit to pass Ocon"

Basically Ferrari don´t know where their right foot is, but I know some of you will blame Sainz whatever he or the team do. Nothing new around here

Sainz was called in because he was at risk of being undercutted by Hamilton.

[dialtone]

Sainz throwing away the podium potentially..

Did you watch the race?

Sainz podium was done when Ferrari called him into pits, despite using hard tires, much earlier than other cars with medium tires. Ocon pitstop was a bit slow (4. something) so they assumed they´d pass him, despite the 2 seconds advantage before the pitstop, and obviously that was not the case and they did exit the pitlane behind Ocon again

After the race Vasseur said they were protecting from Hamilton, opposite to the radio call "pit to pass Ocon"

Basically Ferrari don´t know where their right foot is, but I know some of you will blame Sainz whatever he or the team do. Nothing new around here

No, his lap without ocon in front was terrible, Ferrari made the right call, LEC’s pace was a great indication of how it would have gone for SAI had he stayed out: LEC lost 8 secs from HAM.

The extra lap on mediums and him going long in mirabeau caused him to lose positions.

[AR3-GP]

Sainz throwing away the podium potentially..

Did you watch the race?

Sainz podium was done when Ferrari called him into pits, despite using hard tires, much earlier than other cars with medium tires. Ocon pitstop was a bit slow (4. something) so they assumed they´d pass him, despite the 2 seconds advantage before the pitstop, and obviously that was not the case and they did exit the pitlane behind Ocon again

After the race Vasseur said they were protecting from Hamilton, opposite to the radio call "pit to pass Ocon"

Basically Ferrari don´t know where their right foot is, but I know some of you will blame Sainz whatever he or the team do. Nothing new around here

Sainz was called in because he was at risk of being undercutted by Hamilton.

Shouldn't they have gambled on going for the Podium against Ocon, vs squabbling with Hamilton over P4? I thought the pit was to undercut Ocon anyway. No idea what they were discussing about Hamilton.

So why was his outlap so terrible? He had medium tires. Ocon had a 4 second stop. How didn't Sainz manage the undercut?

[Andres125sx]

Ocon had a 4 second stop. How didn't Sainz manage the undercut?

Simple mathematics. If the car in front, with 2 seconds advantage, do a 4.something pitstop, you´d need under 2 seconds pitstop to overcut, probably closer to 1 second as his out lap will be faster with new tires

Then he did aquaplanning, but at that point the podium was out of reach thanks to Ferrari´s awesome strategy department

[dialtone]

Did you watch the race?

Sainz podium was done when Ferrari called him into pits, despite using hard tires, much earlier than other cars with medium tires. Ocon pitstop was a bit slow (4. something) so they assumed they´d pass him, despite the 2 seconds advantage before the pitstop, and obviously that was not the case and they did exit the pitlane behind Ocon again

After the race Vasseur said they were protecting from Hamilton, opposite to the radio call "pit to pass Ocon"

Basically Ferrari don´t know where their right foot is, but I know some of you will blame Sainz whatever he or the team do. Nothing new around here

Sainz was called in because he was at risk of being undercutted by Hamilton.

Shouldn't they have gambled on going for the Podium against Ocon, vs squabbling with Hamilton over P4? I thought the pit was to undercut Ocon anyway. No idea what they were discussing about Hamilton.

So why was his outlap so terrible? He had medium tires. Ocon had a 4 second stop. How didn't Sainz manage the undercut?

There was no gamble, tires were off a cliff already he was a sitting duck.

I think they tried too hard the quali setup and ended up really screwing the race tire life which resulted in the shitty race when paired with the LEC penalty and the changing conditions. They bet on an uneventful race and got caught unprepared by Alpine which actually ran a similar strategy to theirs but executed it.

[Andres125sx]

Sainz throwing away the podium potentially..

Did you watch the race?

Sainz podium was done when Ferrari called him into pits, despite using hard tires, much earlier than other cars with medium tires. Ocon pitstop was a bit slow (4. something) so they assumed they´d pass him, despite the 2 seconds advantage before the pitstop, and obviously that was not the case and they did exit the pitlane behind Ocon again

After the race Vasseur said they were protecting from Hamilton, opposite to the radio call "pit to pass Ocon"

Basically Ferrari don´t know where their right foot is, but I know some of you will blame Sainz whatever he or the team do. Nothing new around here

No, his lap without ocon in front was terrible, Ferrari made the right call, LEC’s pace was a great indication of how it would have gone for SAI had he stayed out: LEC lost 8 secs from HAM.

What if he stayed out for longer than a few laps, as it was the initial plan when they equipped the car with hard tires? He could have swiched to inters directly, saving 1 stop and passing Ocon, Lewis, and Russell, who used that strategy, from a lower position, to finish ahead

And I´m not even considering using the tires for longer than expected wich would have been risky (as Verstappen did with his medium tires) just using the hard tires for the planned stint should have been a much better option.

I know, hindsight is great, but I actually screamed to the TV when they called him to pits, to me it was obvious that strategy will never work

[dialtone]

Ocon had a 4 second stop. How didn't Sainz manage the undercut?

Simple mathematics. If the car in front, with 2 seconds advantage, do a 4.something pitstop, you´d need under 2 seconds pitstop to undercut, probably closer to 1 second as his out lap will be faster with new tires

Then he did aquaplanning, but at that point the podium was out of reach thanks to Ferrari´s awesome strategy department

It wasn’t raining during the first stop… I don’t know what race you watched… he was already 3.1 sec behind OCO, thanks to losing 1s to during OCO’s inlap s2, then OCO did his stop and SAI had a bad lap in comparison with HAM doing 1:15.650 and SAI lapping 1:17.2. Ferrari was losing 1s just in S2 in those 3 laps.

This is then lap 32-34, it didn’t rain till like lap 55. On lap 45 LEC was lapping 2s slower than SAI and HAM and you all think he should have tried to go another 10 lap to gamble rain that no team predicted well?

I get trying to fault drivers or pit wall each time, it’s not like they are performing well, but this race had only one issue: the car eats tires for breakfast.

[AR3-GP]

Ocon had a 4 second stop. How didn't Sainz manage the undercut?

Simple mathematics. If the car in front, with 2 seconds advantage, do a 4.something pitstop, you´d need under 2 seconds pitstop to overcut, probably closer to 1 second as his out lap will be faster with new tires

Then he did aquaplanning, but at that point the podium was out of reach thanks to Ferrari´s awesome strategy department

What? Carlos was behind. His outlap on fresh tires should have been at least a second quicker than Ocon’s pit adjusted in-lap. From that alone even without Alpines slow stop, Carlos would have been neck and neck with the Alpine on pit exit. The delay on Alpine’s pitstop should have handed the position to Carlos easily.

There was no “aquaplaning” on the outlap. The track was still dry. Sainz ruined his own race by failing to execute the undercut on Ocon even when Alpine gave up 2 seconds in the pitlane. Then he lost control later in the race because he was having to pressure Ocon instead of being ahead of him in the first place.

Has anyone asked Carlos how he managed to screw that up? Did he forget about Ocon because he knew he covered Hamilton behind?