2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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MrGapes
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Whilst there is a lot of talk about engine manufacturers.

This is a speculative article https://www.cyrkf1.pl/mclaren-sciagnie- ... kow-z-usa/
If McLaren were to obtain a engine partner, GM makes the most sense currently.

They sounded quite serious about investing in a F1 engine program: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gene ... /10464982/

If Andretti doesn't make it (I personally believe they won't) Mclaren could be a alternative.

MTudor
MTudor
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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MrGapes wrote:
31 May 2023, 15:21
Whilst there is a lot of talk about engine manufacturers.

This is a speculative article https://www.cyrkf1.pl/mclaren-sciagnie- ... kow-z-usa/
If McLaren were to obtain a engine partner, GM makes the most sense currently.

They sounded quite serious about investing in a F1 engine program: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gene ... /10464982/

If Andretti doesn't make it (I personally believe they won't) Mclaren could be a alternative.
What language is that?
Polish or czech?
Without reading the article I had a similar thought but with a Chevy engine not with a Cadillac one.

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McG
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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What's with the talk of switching engine when the Mercedes is still at least equal best? Has anyone at McLaren said they are looking for a works deal with an inexperienced partner?
Finally, everyone knows that Red Bull is a joke and Max Verstappen is overrated.

MTudor
MTudor
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Mostlyeels
Mostlyeels
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MTudor wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 00:49
Was this article posted before?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... /10475928/
Thanks. I hadn't seen it, but then again I don't click most links for some reason :) I liked this quote though:
As Alpine team boss Otmar Szafnauer said recently about poaching staff from top teams like Red Bull: “You want to shortcut the process.

“Red Bull has an aerodynamic team of 50 people, it's not one. But the guy who sits on top of the 50, he gets all the ideas. So, when you displace him, his brain is full of all those learnings.”

Getting those 'learnings' to flow through in to an actual car design will not be instant, and it took Aston Martin more than a year to fully benefit from Fallows’ and Blandin’s input.

swifteddie1
swifteddie1
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Most engine manufacturers have been working on some version of the 2026 power unit for the last 18 months. The specs may not be set in stone but they are well aware of what 80% of the PU will look like. Audi would not have joined if that wasn't the case.

Any new manufacturer that is now attempting to join and expects to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027 is in for a surprise. Only way at this point someone not already part of the 2026 grid is competitive is if all 6 manufacturers make a hash of the regs and that is just not going to happen with the resources/expertise they have at their disposal.

I would love to see Chevy/GM or even Hyundai get involved but at this point i would rather be a customer for 2026/27 with the flexibility to switch in 28 if things don't go well.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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swifteddie1 wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 03:52
Most engine manufacturers have been working on some version of the 2026 power unit for the last 18 months. The specs may not be set in stone but they are well aware of what 80% of the PU will look like. Audi would not have joined if that wasn't the case.

Any new manufacturer that is now attempting to join and expects to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027 is in for a surprise. Only way at this point someone not already part of the 2026 grid is competitive is if all 6 manufacturers make a hash of the regs and that is just not going to happen with the resources/expertise they have at their disposal.

I would love to see Chevy/GM or even Hyundai get involved but at this point i would rather be a customer for 2026/27 with the flexibility to switch in 28 if things don't go well.
GM is already making a turbo V6 for indycar.
A lion must kill its prey.

billamend
billamend
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 04:32
GM is already making a turbo V6 for indycar.
And its hybrid as well.

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 04:32
swifteddie1 wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 03:52
Most engine manufacturers have been working on some version of the 2026 power unit for the last 18 months. The specs may not be set in stone but they are well aware of what 80% of the PU will look like. Audi would not have joined if that wasn't the case.

Any new manufacturer that is now attempting to join and expects to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027 is in for a surprise. Only way at this point someone not already part of the 2026 grid is competitive is if all 6 manufacturers make a hash of the regs and that is just not going to happen with the resources/expertise they have at their disposal.

I would love to see Chevy/GM or even Hyundai get involved but at this point i would rather be a customer for 2026/27 with the flexibility to switch in 28 if things don't go well.
GM is already making a turbo V6 for indycar.
Yeah but we are talking fine margins. We've had Turbo V6s in F1 now for some time, but they have been improving for a decade and it required that decade in F1 to get that knowledge and evolution. The regs retain largely the existing V6 Lumps so there is a benefit if you can carry forward the PU. Anyone new coming in is it a disadvantage. Hence the RB deal retains the Honda PU with ford electronics.

I'd love GM to come in, and it's very brave of Audi to come in, but it is a big ask to have that V6 lump working at current F1 levels by 2026, I expect them to be behind for a little while.
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billamend
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 12:11
Anyone new coming in is it a disadvantage. Hence the RB deal retains the Honda PU with ford electronics.
I agree with you, but this is not true. RBPT is building a new PU, without any Honda IP. Then they will bring in Fords electronics and battery.

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djos
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I find the “without Honda IP” very difficult to believe. Wasn’t there some sort of cross licensing agreement done between the two?
"In downforce we trust"

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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billamend wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 12:21
mwillems wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 12:11
Anyone new coming in is it a disadvantage. Hence the RB deal retains the Honda PU with ford electronics.
I agree with you, but this is not true. RBPT is building a new PU, without any Honda IP. Then they will bring in Fords electronics and battery.
I think the reality is that a lot of that engine will carry forward, including a lot of the knowledge and lessons that got to the current design that RB are now experts in.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

Balalu
Balalu
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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To put the engine debate at rest:

Quoting article:
When asked about what type of relationship it would like with prospective partners, Team Principal Andreas Stella was keen to point out the importance of being able to influence the power unit design to yield any potential performance benefits.

"You definitely have to monitor that, if making deals for 2026 as a chassis manufacturer like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he told media, including RacingNews365.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations, we know what we want to achieve. This doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having, but we are satisfied that this seems to be something that we will be able to achieve."

Is there a possibility of McLaren doing a similar partnership to Red Bull and Ford, and bringing in another manufacturer to help with a power unit project in future? Stella confirmed the team is currently not assessing such an option: "That's not in discussion at the moment, certainly not in the foreseeable future."

https://racingnews365.com/the-main-fact ... ngine-deal
"I showed him [with my hands] and said: I have bigger balls!” - Mika Hakkinen

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MrGapes
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Balalu wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 14:02
To put the engine debate at rest:

Quoting article:
When asked about what type of relationship it would like with prospective partners, Team Principal Andreas Stella was keen to point out the importance of being able to influence the power unit design to yield any potential performance benefits.

"You definitely have to monitor that, if making deals for 2026 as a chassis manufacturer like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he told media, including RacingNews365.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations, we know what we want to achieve. This doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having, but we are satisfied that this seems to be something that we will be able to achieve."

Is there a possibility of McLaren doing a similar partnership to Red Bull and Ford, and bringing in another manufacturer to help with a power unit project in future? Stella confirmed the team is currently not assessing such an option: "That's not in discussion at the moment, certainly not in the foreseeable future."

https://racingnews365.com/the-main-fact ... ngine-deal
Extended version of that article: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10476385/

Article:

Stella says he's not worried about McLaren being a customer as long as it can have a close relationship with a supplier.

The team is currently free to shop around for the best package and is not committed to being a Mercedes customer.

"You definitely have to monitor that in making deals for 2026. That as a chassis manufacturer, like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design, so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he said when asked about the issue by Motorsport.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations. We know what we want to achieve. To be honest, this doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having."

Stella stressed that these days customer engine deals have run in the same way as those of works teams, and suggested that any loss of performance due to lack of integration can be made up with a better-performing car.

"You want to ideally be in a position where you can influence all the parameters," he said.

"I think there are two categories. One is the layout: how you integrate the power unit within the car together with the chassis.

"The other one is the performance parameters: how you actually run the power unit. From the second category point of view, we are very comfortable that the FIA already, and I think even more in the future, have in place the conditions to make sure that customer teams and factory teams work with the same parameters.

"When it comes to layout, like I said before, the conversations we are having are definitely taking this point into account. And we are confident that we should be able to get in a strong position.

"If it's a matter of the final milliseconds, we hope we'll be able to compensate for that through chassis development and aerodynamics.

"So we know it's not the absolute best situation, but we don't think is a decisive factor for being successful in the future."

Stella also acknowledged that not having a works deal would give McLaren more freedom to switch if its customer engine wasn't performing well enough.

"This element is definitely part of our conversations," he noted. "So from a contractual point of view, you want to be protected that you will have some criteria of quality criteria of competitiveness.

"And if these criteria are not met then you may even have the possibility to be released from the contract. Like in every good negotiation, this is part of the conversations we are having."

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MrGapes
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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