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...and another one bites the dust!
I know its not so simple, but as observed above, there's some curious decision making in play generally, and possibly driven by cost cap ultimately.JordanMugen wrote: ↑02 Jun 2023, 22:22...and another one bites the dust!
Pending budget, will HAAS go for a downwashing setup too, making for a 100% downwashing grid?
It is curious that the various "altnerative" designs seen during the 2022 launch season did not show more promise -- or maybe they did and they still have more potential, but the teams have selected short-term gains from adopting the "norm" instead for some reason?!
Of course, some might say (as with Mercedes) "if you were going to move to a Red Bull type design, why didn't you do it at the start of the season when you had a chance to bring an entire new car, without compromises of modifying an existing car"? Not doing so in the first place doesn't make that much sense!
Could it be that both teams, Ferrari and Mercedes, erroneously thought their 2023 launch designs would be more competitive in the competition amongst the top four teams having not anticipated a deficit to the leading teams Red Bull and Aston Martin?
well not in terms of ultimate competitive output.
Lol only because it's two different angles. Actually they are not that different design-wise.
Thanks Andi. I understand your question and this could be partially the case, at least RB v Ferrari. If Ferrari is (or was, we don't know if floor changed with new parts) generating downforce with raw Venturi effect, they might suffer from more drag since their floor is lower to the ground, so locally there is more surface area in cross section. However, comparing Mercedes with new sides with RB this weekend (and both cars having biggest rear wings) Max is faster 3-4kmh on intermediate points and 5kmh on main straight. So just slightly better DRS, but overall lower drag of the whole car - and they have much more similar floors now.Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2023, 20:29I read your article regarding the Red Bulls underbody. Excellent work! Two thoughts occurred to me, based on Katz diagrams and what you wrote about Ferraris floor. There are diagrams of a wing and diffuser in ground effect (downforce and drag) and you describe Ferrari's floor as a more classic ground effect floor, which were effectively inverted wings. Is it possible that Red Bull's low drag comes from the fact that Red Bull's underbody has this special geometry and shaped "roof" and therefore it produces drag more like a diffuser and the floors of the others actually produce drag more like a wing (exaggerated but you know what i mean, don't you?)?
To be honest, I think strake vortex is a very sturdy structure on its own, it's very powerful as it originates from very big pressure difference. So if you squash it, it could deform but I don't think it can break so easily. And, more importantly, I believe it's easier to find this out in wind tunnel (if you didn't find it in CFD) than to find out tyre squirt ends up in diffuser when you don't expect it. Jock Clear made a definitive statement about its importance in Miami. For me, it will be interesting to follow the rest of the season simply because I'm interested in finding out if going with new sides will enable Ferrari or Mercedes to claw back some performance and start matching RB at one point, assuming they keep the floor philosophies as they were in Monaco.Andi76 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2023, 20:29The second thought concerns Red Bull's dominance, Ferrari's and Mercedes' problems, and ride height. As you explain, the Strake Vortex can roll up better in Red Bull's floor, which is logical and probably the explanation why they can use lower ride heights. Wouldn't it then also be the reason for Ferrari's and Mercedes' problems? Couldn't it be that the low roof compresses the vortices and makes them elliptical and changes their vector field when the car compresses or under yaw and roll? Even burst when they use lower ride heights? The consequences would probably be exactly what we observe such as loss of downforce, unconsistent or changing downforce or even worse. The worse control over the aeroplatform would of course make the whole thing worse, as it does actually happen. Couldn't this be the reason for their problems? Unfortunately, this would also mean that there is nothing left but to develop a new floor concept a la Red Bull....
Gave me a good bit of laugh, thanks for sharing!
I've seen too many examples of "aerodynamics" of this nature, but this one is head and shoulders above the rest! 
You'd expect teams to converge quicker than usual in tighter regulations. I expect next year we'll see very similar cars as they are converging as much as possible this year within the team's abilities around their chassis designs and SIS locations.
