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Just having a think about the Honda + Aston deal. Tbh I think it’s a bullet dodged for Mclaren.
Honda just aren’t the car company they used to be, just look at their sales numbers in Australia, they sold less than 900 cars last month (while overall car sales hit a record high). Back in 2007 they sold more than 60,000 cars that year, this year they’ll be lucky to sell 6,000.
I don’t know what their global sales look like, but the reason for their massive fall from grace here is quite simple, they stopped being innovative and making great cars that ppl want to buy.
IMO, Honda will be dead by 2030.
They wont be dead but I agree with you. Honda has a lot of problems, like RBPT poached a lot of their staff and Aston will have a big task of building the whole package (suspension, gearbox which they have never done).
McLaren doesn't have a problem with the engine. So why put another variable in the mix. Firstly the have to make a great chassis/aero package then we will see about the engine.
Thing about Honda is all their F1 design people are in Japan. Whenever there was a major problem with the PU, it would be sent back to Japan. I wouldn't put much stock in the talent of the people they had in the UK.
As long as you have stable regs in the PU, you don't need to be a works team to win. With the new PU regs, works teams will get an edge for the first 2 years or so.
these is a mclaren thread why are you discussing Honda ,now that they are winning the pu is built in the uk what am i missing .the uk guys are just doing some fine tuning on pu maps the rest of pu is built exclusively in sakura .
It's good to hear how optimistic the mood is; I imagine it's been bloody hard inside the team in the last little while. Also very interesting to hear how young engineers are being encouraged to take chances and be less conservative about ideas. It makes it sound like the policy has been to play it safe over the last few years, and maybe they've ended up with safe but slow cars as a result.
Just having a think about the Honda + Aston deal. Tbh I think it’s a bullet dodged for Mclaren.
Honda just aren’t the car company they used to be, just look at their sales numbers in Australia, they sold less than 900 cars last month (while overall car sales hit a record high). Back in 2007 they sold more than 60,000 cars that year, this year they’ll be lucky to sell 6,000.
I don’t know what their global sales look like, but the reason for their massive fall from grace here is quite simple, they stopped being innovative and making great cars that ppl want to buy.
IMO, Honda will be dead by 2030.
Talk about conflating issues. Apples and Oranges bud.
Remember how sensitive Honda is to their car business. If they were struggling, they'd pull out of F1. If they're doubling down, business is good. Maybe, F1 is helping that business.
Dont take my word for it:
Honda Motor ranks in 8th with 869,291 new registrations (-18.4%), losing in Latin America (-4.9%), Europe (-14.3%) and Asia (-28.3%).
They wont be dead but I agree with you. Honda has a lot of problems, like RBPT poached a lot of their staff and Aston will have a big task of building the whole package (suspension, gearbox which they have never done).
McLaren doesn't have a problem with the engine. So why put another variable in the mix. Firstly the have to make a great chassis/aero package then we will see about the engine.
Thing about Honda is all their F1 design people are in Japan. Whenever there was a major problem with the PU, it would be sent back to Japan. I wouldn't put much stock in the talent of the people they had in the UK.
As long as you have stable regs in the PU, you don't need to be a works team to win. With the new PU regs, works teams will get an edge for the first 2 years or so.
these is a mclaren thread why are you discussing Honda ,now that they are winning the pu is built in the uk what am i missing .the uk guys are just doing some fine tuning on pu maps the rest of pu is built exclusively in sakura .
Just having a think about the Honda + Aston deal. Tbh I think it’s a bullet dodged for Mclaren.
Honda just aren’t the car company they used to be, just look at their sales numbers in Australia, they sold less than 900 cars last month (while overall car sales hit a record high). Back in 2007 they sold more than 60,000 cars that year, this year they’ll be lucky to sell 6,000.
I don’t know what their global sales look like, but the reason for their massive fall from grace here is quite simple, they stopped being innovative and making great cars that ppl want to buy.
IMO, Honda will be dead by 2030.
Talk about conflating issues. Apples and Oranges bud.
Remember how sensitive Honda is to their car business. If they were struggling, they'd pull out of F1. If they're doubling down, business is good. Maybe, F1 is helping that business.
Dont take my word for it:
Honda Motor ranks in 8th with 869,291 new registrations (-18.4%), losing in Latin America (-4.9%), Europe (-14.3%) and Asia (-28.3%).
the whole car industry is having problems because inflation .pandemic ,loss jops from customer the war in ukraine also means germany car companies no longer have access to cheap gas from Russia how do think they are going to fare.eu is also reversing banning of gasoline powered cars because full electric is a fantacy.
Talk about conflating issues. Apples and Oranges bud.
Remember how sensitive Honda is to their car business. If they were struggling, they'd pull out of F1. If they're doubling down, business is good. Maybe, F1 is helping that business.
Dont take my word for it:
Honda Motor ranks in 8th with 869,291 new registrations (-18.4%), losing in Latin America (-4.9%), Europe (-14.3%) and Asia (-28.3%).
the whole car industry is having problems because inflation .pandemic ,loss jops from customer the war in ukraine also means germany car companies no longer have access to cheap gas from Russia how do think they are going to fare.eu is also reversing banning of gasoline powered cars because full electric is a fantacy.
Im not going to argue the merits of EV's vs ICE, I like both for different reasons. EU has it's own issues, here in Australia, and the USA, overall car sales are booming, regardless of gas prices. The fact is, Honda has long term issues in many markets.
Anyway, I only brought this up because I think McLaren is better to stay with Merc for PU's as Honda have demonstrated their commitment to F1 is sketchy at best and Aston are taking a huge risk.
It's good to hear how optimistic the mood is; I imagine it's been bloody hard inside the team in the last little while. Also very interesting to hear how young engineers are being encouraged to take chances and be less conservative about ideas. It makes it sound like the policy has been to play it safe over the last few years, and maybe they've ended up with safe but slow cars as a result.
I bet they love it if they visit here, see people calling for a different persons sacking every week and the team being called incompetent by some petulant fans who don't know better.
I'm optimistic with the teams optimism, and I know, no matter how long it takes, we will make it back to the top because we have that pedigree. It will click and we will be celebrating again. Think Ducatti.
It's good to hear how optimistic the mood is; I imagine it's been bloody hard inside the team in the last little while. Also very interesting to hear how young engineers are being encouraged to take chances and be less conservative about ideas. It makes it sound like the policy has been to play it safe over the last few years, and maybe they've ended up with safe but slow cars as a result.
I bet they love it if they visit here, see people calling for a different persons sacking every week and the team being called incompetent by some petulant fans who don't know better.
I'm optimistic with the teams optimism, and I know, no matter how long it takes, we will make it back to the top because we have that pedigree. It will click and we will be celebrating again. Think Ducatti.
Man, the first step to solving a problem , at work or in private life is acknowledging you have a problem, maybe fans from their frustration are sometimes little too much, but doing nothing and excepting that something will change on it s own ,and somehow magically McLaren will win again is delusional. Don t shot a person that is yelling fire , when the village is burning, maybe he/she wants to see that willage in best possible state more than even you. And don t get me wrong, I don t think you dont care, we all care, let s assume all people are not internet trolls, you really have to care for something to even come to a website , let alone leave a comment
It's good to hear how optimistic the mood is; I imagine it's been bloody hard inside the team in the last little while. Also very interesting to hear how young engineers are being encouraged to take chances and be less conservative about ideas. It makes it sound like the policy has been to play it safe over the last few years, and maybe they've ended up with safe but slow cars as a result.
I bet they love it if they visit here, see people calling for a different persons sacking every week and the team being called incompetent by some petulant fans who don't know better.
I'm optimistic with the teams optimism, and I know, no matter how long it takes, we will make it back to the top because we have that pedigree. It will click and we will be celebrating again. Think Ducatti.
Man, the first step to solving a problem , at work or in private life is acknowledging you have a problem, maybe fans from their frustration are sometimes little too much, but doing nothing and excepting that something will change on it s own ,and somehow magically McLaren will win again is delusional. Don t shot a person that is yelling fire , when the village is burning, maybe he/she wants to see that willage in best possible state more than even you. And don t get me wrong, I don t think you dont care, we all care, let s assume all people are not internet trolls, you really have to care for something to even come to a website , let alone leave a comment
I think that of all places, F1 is a one of the hardest places to avoid facing failure to match standards. I think Fans perspectives are fine, it's just about keeping it rational and recognising that we don't know all the facts. Or in fact, many of them at all!
the whole car industry is having problems because inflation .pandemic ,loss jops from customer the war in ukraine also means germany car companies no longer have access to cheap gas from Russia how do think they are going to fare.eu is also reversing banning of gasoline powered cars because full electric is a fantacy.
I'm not going to argue the merits of EV's vs ICE, I like both for different reasons. EU has it's own issues, here in Australia, and the USA, overall car sales are booming, regardless of gas prices. The fact is, Honda has long term issues in many markets.
Anyway, I only brought this up because I think McLaren is better to stay with Merc for PU's as Honda have demonstrated their commitment to F1 is sketchy at best and Aston are taking a huge risk.
Their stock in Japan is up 25% over the last year and revenue is up 18%....can't be all that bad.
Hey guys I've missed a heck of a lot. Been involved in the McLaren GT1 then GT3 programs all over the world. Wondering why all the talk about Honda in a McLaren thread??? Don't keep up 100% with F1 but pretty sure McLaren ditched Honda a long time ago.
I would propose to move from the whole Honda thing and I'm not sure why are we even discussing it. Honda was goid back in the 80s and 90s. They haven't done anything significant after that. Their partnership with Mclaren was a disaster because they couldn't bother to do some hard work and Mclaren paid the price becoming a guinea pig testing GP2 engines that were not able to reach high speeds without self dismantling. Add in the fact that Honda almost always ditched their teams before tasting success showing that they have no commitment.
Today I read the news, where Andrea Stella says that they are in an advanced stage with Mercedes. He also noted that the B specification will come to Austria.
