2023 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 30 - July 02

[dialtone]

Why is no one defending the track limit farce today?

Because I'm watching the race. Keep going.

any thoughts on it now? Dialtone, it's time to give up. It was a farce, and you know it...Is "sticking it to RB/Perez" really so important that we should just overlook the issues here? lol.

The FIA wasn't able to keep up with the breeches and have over 1200 potential infringements to review after the race.

They have now recommended that the Red Bull Ring install gravel traps on the outside of T9/T10 but I even think that's extreme. All that's needed is a bit of grass or astroturf in place of the blue curbing to enforce the track limits passively.

Only thing is they needed more people to monitor. Keep it in the white lines.

Race results changed post race plenty of times, drivers should have kept the car inside. Max and Charles only left track 1 time in 71 laps and were 1st and 2nd.

Lewis crying that the car didn't turn was absolutely pathetic.

Penalize everyone that needs a penalty and work on better tech next year so we can give out 1200 penalties in a single race.

[AR3-GP]

Because I'm watching the race. Keep going.

any thoughts on it now? Dialtone, it's time to give up. It was a farce, and you know it...Is "sticking it to Perez" really so important that we should just overlook the issues here? lol.

The FIA wasn't able to keep up with the breeches and have over 1200 potential infringements to review after the race.

They have now recommended that the Red Bull Ring install gravel traps on the outside of T9/T10 but I even think that's extreme. All that's needed is a bit of grass or astroturf in place of the blue curbing to enforce the track limits passively.

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... 24x684.jpg

typical bs form the FIA, never wanting to own up to there own faults. they could easily automate this, and the drivers, teams and fans would instantly know.

Why don't they just build the track edge like other circuits?

What happens when the automated system has a technical malfunction? So we red flag the race?

Why is it so difficult to admit some grass would stop all of this nonsense with 100% accuracy and reliability.

[AR3-GP]

Only thing is they needed more people to monitor. Keep it in the white lines.

Race results changed post race plenty of times, drivers should have kept the car inside. Max and Charles only left track 1 time in 71 laps and were 1st and 2nd.

Lewis crying that the car didn't turn was absolutely pathetic.

Penalize everyone that needs a penalty and work on better tech next year so we can give out 1200 penalties in a single race.

Your defense is admirable. Not even Sainz could touch this

[organic]

I'd rather have natural circuit limits that enforce track limits rather than having the FIA have to invent, introduce, and then maintain a reliable, quick system that can monitor the track limits. I simply don't trust the fia's ability to do this one bit and I'm surprised anyone else has confidence in them..

Minor changes can be made across the calendar, probably 10 corners in total (2 at Austria, some at France) that would eliminate this entire need for a massive new monitoring system that wouldn't necessarily end up working well.

Most tracks have a zero cost method of reliably enforcing track limits. Why isn't this appealing to many?

[mwillems]

Bring back the gravel so they really regret biting off too much. I'd much rather see instant on track ramifications.

[dialtone]

any thoughts on it now? Dialtone, it's time to give up. It was a farce, and you know it...Is "sticking it to Perez" really so important that we should just overlook the issues here? lol.

The FIA wasn't able to keep up with the breeches and have over 1200 potential infringements to review after the race.

They have now recommended that the Red Bull Ring install gravel traps on the outside of T9/T10 but I even think that's extreme. All that's needed is a bit of grass or astroturf in place of the blue curbing to enforce the track limits passively.

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... 24x684.jpg

typical bs form the FIA, never wanting to own up to there own faults. they could easily automate this, and the drivers, teams and fans would instantly know.

Why don't they just build the track edge like other circuits?

What happens when the automated system has a technical malfunction? So we red flag the race?

Why is it so difficult to admit some grass would stop all of this nonsense with 100% accuracy and reliability.

This track has 2 items of note due to being used by MotoGP:

- flat kerbs, removes leverage the car would have to stay in and feel for the driver
- gravel, can be dangerous and drivers are the first to not want it

They could put a temporary sausage kerb but we've already had someone die in Monza due to those.

Can RBR divert some of those catering costs to upkeep the track for each race they have? Should be plenty.

If that's not possible then this is what you get and drivers, professionals as they are, need to keep it in the white lines and stop whining.

[organic]

typical bs form the FIA, never wanting to own up to there own faults. they could easily automate this, and the drivers, teams and fans would instantly know.

Why don't they just build the track edge like other circuits?

What happens when the automated system has a technical malfunction? So we red flag the race?

Why is it so difficult to admit some grass would stop all of this nonsense with 100% accuracy and reliability.

This track has 2 items of note due to being used by MotoGP:

- flat kerbs, removes leverage the car would have to stay in and feel for the driver
- gravel, can be dangerous and drivers are the first to not want it

They could put a temporary sausage kerb but we've already had someone die in Monza due to those.

Can RBR divert some of those catering costs to upkeep the track for each race they have? Should be plenty.

If that's not possible then this is what you get and drivers, professionals as they are, need to keep it in the white lines and stop whining.

Except it's not about the drivers. Were sitting here hours post-race and don't have a clue how the competitive order will look below 3rd position. When there's an easy solution that works at almost every track that is available it should be used. Motorbikes run at plenty of circuits that F1 goes to and yet they don't run into the same problems at other tracks compared to Austria. Minor changes can be made to the circuit that are compatible with the circuits other functions that also remedies the track limits issues

[TimW]

All drivers combined did 20x71= 1420v laps. Are they reviewing turn 10 for every lap of every driver?

[dialtone]

Why don't they just build the track edge like other circuits?

What happens when the automated system has a technical malfunction? So we red flag the race?

Why is it so difficult to admit some grass would stop all of this nonsense with 100% accuracy and reliability.

This track has 2 items of note due to being used by MotoGP:

- flat kerbs, removes leverage the car would have to stay in and feel for the driver
- gravel, can be dangerous and drivers are the first to not want it

They could put a temporary sausage kerb but we've already had someone die in Monza due to those.

Can RBR divert some of those catering costs to upkeep the track for each race they have? Should be plenty.

If that's not possible then this is what you get and drivers, professionals as they are, need to keep it in the white lines and stop whining.

Except it's not about the drivers. Were sitting here hours post-race and don't have a clue how the competitive order will look below 3rd position. When there's an easy solution that works at almost every track that is available it should be used. Motorbikes run at plenty of circuits that F1 goes to and yet they don't run into the same problems at other tracks compared to Austria. Minor changes can be made to the circuit that are compatible with the circuits other functions that also remedies the track limits issues

That's disappointing but the alternative of letting drivers leave track to gain an advantage isn't fair either.

Penalize and take the time needed. Procedurally FIA was lacking but their goal is good. FIA doesn't manage this track, RBR does and they just signed till 2030, get them working.

[mwillems]

An article discussing why track limits got worse and why it is hard for the drivers, largely agreeing with Dialtone. Quotes from Sainz, Verstappen and Pirelli.

"Gravel would work,” says Verstappen. “But the bikes don’t want that. You can’t ask the organisers to put gravel in then take it away and put it back, because it would be too expensive. But we need to find a solution.”

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... escalated/

[F1doc]

All drivers combined did 20x71= 1420v laps. Are they reviewing turn 10 for every lap of every driver?

It'll be less than this. Lapped cars wouldn't have done 71 laps, and Hulk retired.

[vorticism]

2 m strip of grass then asphalt does seem like an ideal solution as AR3-GP keeps bringing up. You get the immediate punishment and then get to catch it and slow down on the asphalt run off (more so than gravel, at least). What's the catch though? MotoGP couldn't use it?

[organic]

2 m strip of grass then asphalt does seem like an ideal solution as AR3-GP keeps bringing up. You get the immediate punishment and then get to catch it and slow down on the asphalt run off (more so than gravel, at least). What's the catch though? MotoGP couldn't use it?

I don't think moto would have a problem with that idea

[dialtone]

2 m strip of grass then asphalt does seem like an ideal solution as AR3-GP keeps bringing up. You get the immediate punishment and then get to catch it and slow down on the asphalt run off (more so than gravel, at least). What's the catch though? MotoGP couldn't use it?

I don't think moto would have a problem with that idea

I find it funny that people here believe that nobody ever thought of that already .

In all likelihood they have a set of known corner edges that could be implemented and discussed them all and couldn't find a compromise that worked and not enough pressure to do it.

Maybe this changes now.

[dans79]

Why don't they just build the track edge like other circuits?

because as I and several others already pointed out this weekend what works for a car doesn't work for a bike.

What happens when the automated system has a technical malfunction? So we red flag the race?

That's why you have redundancy, if the first system fails you fall back to the second one, if the second one fails you fall back to the 3rd one.

As we learned in Canada,the fia doesn't even use their own camera systems, they use ccd the feeds from the track. it is a pathetic organization when it comes to staying ahead of the curve in regards to tech.

Why is it so difficult to admit some grass would stop all of this nonsense with 100% accuracy and reliability.

why is it so difficult to understand that adding a hard preventative measure isn't always a good idea. A hard preventative measure doesn't not differentiate between a driver going off line intentionally to gain time , and one going over the edge because they are having a failure of some kind.

on some turns at some tracks, grass might work, on others grass might send a driver into a barrier sideways or backwards at high speed.

an example of what a badly place hard preventative measure can do.


meanwhile you can buy an $11 toy for your kid that demonstrate one of several ways of monitoring track limits.
https://www.amazon.com/WHDTS-Soldering- ... 0732Z1FZC/