2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[organic]

According to Duchessa they will bring another larger upgrade package to Qatar

[bluechris]

Ferrari's inability to call an audible is what really hurts them, too painful to see.
They also totally disregard driver's feel, Leclerc calling for softs and getting hards in Barcelona comes to mind.

This over dependence on (often flawed) data, is why they so often look stupid.

Indeed

You saw that during lap 5 Leclerc almost lost the car in turn 3?

Pushing with the SF 23, especially in the first few laps, looks super dangerous.

Let's not overly dramatise, loose rear end in slow speed corners is common at the start of the race.

Sincerely, the only reason to pit Sainz on lap 27/52 for a switch from medium to hards, apart from utter incompetence, is they noticed they messed it up with Leclerc, and repeated same mistake with Sainz, consciously, to avoid Sainz beating Leclerc.

What a load of nonsense, he had two laps that showed drop off and they pulled him in. Leclerc was faster than him in any case, even if only slightly, so the gap would have only gotten bigger. He got better track position than Leclerc after SC and should have had 6 points yesterday, not 1. He needs to stop making mistakes during races, he needs to stop making excuses and delusional what-ifs in his head, he's got only himself to blame for 10th place yesterday. With his luck, Leclerc would have won the title last year.

Curious how you´ve conveniently ignored Ferrari big mistake of switching to hards on lap 27/52, instead of switching to softs wich would have lasted perfectly the rest of the race, at a much faster pace, ruining Sainz chances. But you didn´t even mention this

Also curious how you´ve also ignored Sainz was on used hards while the rest where on new mediums or even softs when he made a mistake and got past by 3 cars with much faster and fresher tires (Perez and Albon with new softs, Leclerc with new mediums, Sainz using old hards). But you didn´t even mention this either

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OTOH, constantly bashing with no reason a Ferrari driver in the Ferrari Thread could be considered trolling, we Ferrari fans do not deserve this constant bashing, nosense and unfairness with one of the red drivers

Ferrari mistake was the 1st pit in both drivers. They could had stay for many more laps and eventually they could had put Softs. This is the No1 error and again a strategic mistake.
All the rest afterwards are irrelevant

[Andres125sx]

Ferrari mistake was the 1st pit in both drivers. They could had stay for many more laps and eventually they could had put Softs. This is the No1 error and again a strategic mistake.
All the rest afterwards are irrelevant

Indeed. But if it was a big mistake with Leclerc, repeating same mistake with Sainz several laps later, after watching Leclerc tires wich were almost perfect (Ferrari words), and after watching Russell stint with softs, for more than half the race, with full tanks, and on dirty air constantly... that´s an even bigger mistake wich I don´t think any F1 team will do, so I can only think they did it on purpose to avoid Sainz beating Leclerc with a much faster tire

[Andres125sx]

Sure, fighting with old hards vs new softs and new mediums is an excuse... OMG

[codetower]

According to Duchessa they will bring another larger upgrade package to Qatar

Are there any rumors/talks of any suspension upgrades? It seems this is the one area that they are sorely needing an upgrade.

[chrstphrln]

OTOH, constantly bashing with no reason a Ferrari driver in the Ferrari Thread could be considered trolling, we Ferrari fans do not deserve this constant bashing, nosense and unfairness with one of the red drivers

Please don't speak for "us".
As a Ferrari fan since the 80s, I can speak for myself and I am with @Vanja #66 in terms of content.

The Scuderia is making enough mistakes and misjudgments at the moment. To assume that a driver would be deliberately disadvantaged overestimates the skills of those responsible at the pit wall...

[Vanja #66]

Sure, fighting with old hards vs new softs and new mediums is an excuse... OMG

Why do you underestimate Carlos? If Leclerc could hold a Mercedes on Softs without DRS, why couldn't Sainz with DRS hold slower cars on Softs behind? Sainz is clearly back to his best race-pace this season, but he needs to take some time off, rethink his approach and stop making excuses for his mistakes. Only then will he be able to make the final step to always maximising his races, the way Alonso does.

[scuderiabrandon]

According to Duchessa they will bring another larger upgrade package to Qatar

Extremely fast corner circuit where we will probably be on the C1-C2-C3 range where weve generally struggled. It looks they are geniunely trying to tackle the high speed cornering deficit we have for before '24.

It gives me the slightest bit of hope for the future of this team

[SoulPancake13]

According to Duchessa they will bring another larger upgrade package to Qatar

Extremely fast corner circuit where we will probably be on the C1-C2-C3 range where weve generally struggled. It looks they are geniunely trying to tackle the high speed cornering deficit we have for before '24.

It gives me the slightest bit of hope for the future of this team

I still have hope for the team considering the progress made in the 2 GP before Silverstone. We all knew this track was going to be rough, but at the same time, wrong setup cost 2 tenths per lap which would have comfortably been ahead of the Mercs here. Important part is to keep pushing and understanding for next year in terms of the car. On the off track side of things... I don't even know anymore. Does the team need a whole revamp? I don't get it. They keep making the same mistakes as before. Vasseur needs to put his foot down and change something, because what we have right now is not working obviously.

[scuderiabrandon]

According to Duchessa they will bring another larger upgrade package to Qatar

Extremely fast corner circuit where we will probably be on the C1-C2-C3 range where weve generally struggled. It looks they are geniunely trying to tackle the high speed cornering deficit we have for before '24.

It gives me the slightest bit of hope for the future of this team

I still have hope for the team considering the progress made in the 2 GP before Silverstone. We all knew this track was going to be rough, but at the same time, wrong setup cost 2 tenths per lap which would have comfortably been ahead of the Mercs here. Important part is to keep pushing and understanding for next year in terms of the car. On the off track side of things... I don't even know anymore. Does the team need a whole revamp? I don't get it. They keep making the same mistakes as before. Vasseur needs to put his foot down and change something, because what we have right now is not working obviously.

Incorrect setup is a mysterious one, this is a circuit historically theyve always got it right, either the SF-23 evo in terms of setup has changes drastically or they rely a lot on Charles' feedback.

[hollus]

@Andres, @Vanja:

You two are not going to agree, convince each other or see eye to eye. So, please, agree to disagree and move on. Live and let live. The thread feels spammed otherwise.

[SoulPancake13]

Extremely fast corner circuit where we will probably be on the C1-C2-C3 range where weve generally struggled. It looks they are geniunely trying to tackle the high speed cornering deficit we have for before '24.

It gives me the slightest bit of hope for the future of this team

I still have hope for the team considering the progress made in the 2 GP before Silverstone. We all knew this track was going to be rough, but at the same time, wrong setup cost 2 tenths per lap which would have comfortably been ahead of the Mercs here. Important part is to keep pushing and understanding for next year in terms of the car. On the off track side of things... I don't even know anymore. Does the team need a whole revamp? I don't get it. They keep making the same mistakes as before. Vasseur needs to put his foot down and change something, because what we have right now is not working obviously.

Incorrect setup is a mysterious one, this is a circuit historically theyve always got it right, either the SF-23 evo in terms of setup has changes drastically or they rely a lot on Charles' feedback.

The one Friday run they did with Sainz was really scary because of the deg so they just became too conservative with the setup, they likely prevented the car from really firing up the tyres on a cooler Sunday due to this and the lack of pushing which they could have done. We all know though that Charles is a better tyre manager than Sainz and to be honest, the faster driver so of course they likely rely on his input more.

[Shal_Leg16]

I still have hope for the team considering the progress made in the 2 GP before Silverstone. We all knew this track was going to be rough, but at the same time, wrong setup cost 2 tenths per lap which would have comfortably been ahead of the Mercs here. Important part is to keep pushing and understanding for next year in terms of the car. On the off track side of things... I don't even know anymore. Does the team need a whole revamp? I don't get it. They keep making the same mistakes as before. Vasseur needs to put his foot down and change something, because what we have right now is not working obviously.

Incorrect setup is a mysterious one, this is a circuit historically theyve always got it right, either the SF-23 evo in terms of setup has changes drastically or they rely a lot on Charles' feedback.

The one Friday run they did with Sainz was really scary because of the deg so they just became too conservative with the setup, they likely prevented the car from really firing up the tyres on a cooler Sunday due to this and the lack of pushing which they could have done. We all know though that Charles is a better tyre manager than Sainz and to be honest, the faster driver so of course they likely rely on his input more.

Bigger question is if they can rely on any of the drivers for feedback considering both drivers claim they dont understand this car as it is very inconsistent.
Imo its all related to suspension. If that is resolved both tyre deg and correct strategy will fall in place. Or atleast it will show some consistency on which they can rely and work.

[Vanja #66]

The one Friday run they did with Sainz was really scary because of the deg so they just became too conservative with the setup, they likely prevented the car from really firing up the tyres on a cooler Sunday due to this and the lack of pushing which they could have done. We all know though that Charles is a better tyre manager than Sainz and to be honest, the faster driver so of course they likely rely on his input more.

To be honest, I didn't see deg in Sainz' run on Softs, but the lap times were simply slow. Started with 33.5, went up to 35.1 and then back down to 33.3. Deg is usually a steady decline in lap times and then maybe one last quick lap before pitting. But of course, we don't know what else they saw in the data. I'm reading Vasseur's statement from Sunday again, it seems they decided on Friday they won't use Softs no matter what in the race, this seems like way too rigid approach.

Yes, the track was washed out on Saturday and this usually does further harm with deg, but Sunday was much cooler than Friday, up to 10 deg C during the race. There was also much bigger cloud coverage, so the track was up to 20 deg C cooler from what I read (somewhere, can't remember) and those changes simply must be accounted. It doesn't look like they are confident in their tyre performance models, otherwise they would have made changes to tyre strategy during the race, since conditions were so much different from Friday.

[chrstphrln]

Team boss Frederic Vasseur admits that Ferrari was afraid of tire degradation and therefore acted too cautiously: "We probably still had the first races of the season in mind and were far too conservative with tire management today and didn't push enough," says the Frenchman. "I think we could have pushed a little more."

According to him, the misconception comes from Friday, when Leclerc missed the second practice session due to an electrical defect and was unable to collect long run data.
That's why in the first stint you were afraid of the breakdown and went into the pits too early in a duel with Russell. Looking back, Vasseur would not do it again. "In retrospect, you can just say that we could have stretched it a bit and pushed more," says the team boss.

"But where we lost the most with Charles was the stint on Hard. We did ten or twelve laps before the safety car came. We didn't have any degradation at all and he could have pushed a lot more," admits Vasseur. "We misunderstood the dismantling."

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... t-23071107