2023 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 07 - 09

[Cs98]

Mercedes was simply to draggy to threaten Lando in attempted overtakes.

Merc was faster than McL in the speed trap during quali and in the race stints on the straight (when both in free air).

[ringo]

Golf and F1. To me, but I am a fan, Max has always been super special. Tiger Woods as well. Everyone that doesn’t know or cares about golf knows how good Tiger is. I think in that way a comparison is possible.

Golf is 100% player. Modern F1 is now 5% the other 95% is the car.

[ringo]

Mercedes was simply to draggy to threaten Lando in attempted overtakes.

Merc was faster than McL in the speed trap during quali and in the race stints on the straight (when both in free air).

It was too slow in the race. Remember you have to look on the situation not what you see in practice. In the race you have to follow in dirty air and there's also a car on the line which you cannot occupy because you are racing him.
There was no way past for Lewis.
If we look at even the earlier laps of the race, cars were circulating and not being able to overtake. This technical regulation has produced close racing but it has turned some tracks to hard to overtake tracks, most notably this one. Look on Russel vs leclecr or Piastri.
And russel is a good racer. There are other examples too such as Perez.
Hamilton is experienced enough to know where he can overtake and keep the position. Lando could not be passed in a much faster car for many obvious reasons.

[AMG.Tzan]

As for Lewis not getting past Lando on two compounds softer tires please tell us where Lewis could have done the pass and he didn’t manage to do it because apparently he isn’t good enough to do so! Probably nowhere cause Mercedes as always these last 1,5 years hasn’t got straight line speed! And you could see that on the run to Copse where they were side by side and it was as if Lando had his DRS open…

Just about any braking zone. Through the lower speed corners.

Lewis was close to lando at copse, but he backed out. Let’s face it, Lewis is more than capable of overtaking through copse, in some cases, and making it stick. He passes Charles there a couple years back. He could have stuck it up the inside and been level with lando down to mags and becks.

You must be close enough to attempt an overtake into a braking zone! He wasn't close enough to any of the braking zones and the softs didn't seem to offer the perceived advantage everyone thought it would...even Verstapen couldn't open up a gap or even maintain it by the end of the race!

As for Copse he was side by side with Leclerc in 2021 and that's why he managed to passed him there! That W12 was way faster down the straights just like the RB19 is right now compared to the others! Not to mention that Copse is basically flat out now so there's no way to overtake there if you aren't side by side already down the straight!

[Cs98]

Mercedes was simply to draggy to threaten Lando in attempted overtakes.

Merc was faster than McL in the speed trap during quali and in the race stints on the straight (when both in free air).

It was too slow in the race. Remember you have to look on the situation not what you see in practice. In the race you have to follow in dirty air and there's also a car on the line which you cannot occupy because you are racing him.
There was no way past for Lewis.
If we look at even the earlier laps of the race, cars were circulating and not being able to overtake. This technical regulation has produced close racing but it has turned some tracks to hard to overtake tracks, most notably this one. Look on Russel vs leclecr or Piastri.
And russel is a good racer. There are other examples too such as Perez.
Hamilton is experienced enough to know where he can overtake and keep the position. Lando could not be passed in a much faster car for many obvious reasons.

I'm not talking about practice. I'm talking about race telemetry showing the Merc was consistently around 2-3kph faster than the Macca on the straights (in free air). The narrative that the Merc is some drag monster is outdated.

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster. But Lewis had the preferred tyre for the restart which more than off-set that pace advantage.

[bluechris]

Merc was faster than McL in the speed trap during quali and in the race stints on the straight (when both in free air).

It was too slow in the race. Remember you have to look on the situation not what you see in practice. In the race you have to follow in dirty air and there's also a car on the line which you cannot occupy because you are racing him.
There was no way past for Lewis.
If we look at even the earlier laps of the race, cars were circulating and not being able to overtake. This technical regulation has produced close racing but it has turned some tracks to hard to overtake tracks, most notably this one. Look on Russel vs leclecr or Piastri.
And russel is a good racer. There are other examples too such as Perez.
Hamilton is experienced enough to know where he can overtake and keep the position. Lando could not be passed in a much faster car for many obvious reasons.

I'm not talking about practice. I'm talking about race telemetry showing the Merc was consistently around 2-3kph faster than the Macca on the straights (in free air). The narrative that the Merc is some drag monster is outdated.

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster. But Lewis had the preferred tyre for the restart which more than off-set that pace advantage.

So why Lewis didn't passed Lando if he was faster on the straights and with DRS?

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[Cs98]

It was too slow in the race. Remember you have to look on the situation not what you see in practice. In the race you have to follow in dirty air and there's also a car on the line which you cannot occupy because you are racing him.
There was no way past for Lewis.
If we look at even the earlier laps of the race, cars were circulating and not being able to overtake. This technical regulation has produced close racing but it has turned some tracks to hard to overtake tracks, most notably this one. Look on Russel vs leclecr or Piastri.
And russel is a good racer. There are other examples too such as Perez.
Hamilton is experienced enough to know where he can overtake and keep the position. Lando could not be passed in a much faster car for many obvious reasons.

I'm not talking about practice. I'm talking about race telemetry showing the Merc was consistently around 2-3kph faster than the Macca on the straights (in free air). The narrative that the Merc is some drag monster is outdated.

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster. But Lewis had the preferred tyre for the restart which more than off-set that pace advantage.

So why Lewis didn't passed Lando if he was faster on the straights and with DRS?

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Good question.

[Just_a_fan]

It was too slow in the race. Remember you have to look on the situation not what you see in practice. In the race you have to follow in dirty air and there's also a car on the line which you cannot occupy because you are racing him.
There was no way past for Lewis.
If we look at even the earlier laps of the race, cars were circulating and not being able to overtake. This technical regulation has produced close racing but it has turned some tracks to hard to overtake tracks, most notably this one. Look on Russel vs leclecr or Piastri.
And russel is a good racer. There are other examples too such as Perez.
Hamilton is experienced enough to know where he can overtake and keep the position. Lando could not be passed in a much faster car for many obvious reasons.

I'm not talking about practice. I'm talking about race telemetry showing the Merc was consistently around 2-3kph faster than the Macca on the straights (in free air). The narrative that the Merc is some drag monster is outdated.

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster. But Lewis had the preferred tyre for the restart which more than off-set that pace advantage.

So why Lewis didn't passed Lando if he was faster on the straights and with DRS?

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Because even with DRS, the Merc wasn't fast enough on the straights. Simple stuff, really.

[Hammerfist]

Merc was faster than McL in the speed trap during quali and in the race stints on the straight (when both in free air).

It was too slow in the race. Remember you have to look on the situation not what you see in practice. In the race you have to follow in dirty air and there's also a car on the line which you cannot occupy because you are racing him.
There was no way past for Lewis.
If we look at even the earlier laps of the race, cars were circulating and not being able to overtake. This technical regulation has produced close racing but it has turned some tracks to hard to overtake tracks, most notably this one. Look on Russel vs leclecr or Piastri.
And russel is a good racer. There are other examples too such as Perez.
Hamilton is experienced enough to know where he can overtake and keep the position. Lando could not be passed in a much faster car for many obvious reasons.

I'm not talking about practice. I'm talking about race telemetry showing the Merc was consistently around 2-3kph faster than the Macca on the straights (in free air). The narrative that the Merc is some drag monster is outdated.

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster. But Lewis had the preferred tyre for the restart which more than off-set that pace advantage.

I agree with what you said. But how can we explain the mclaren pulling ahead on the run up to Copse? Thats why lewis had to back out. He was losing ground. Perhaps started clipping?

[PlatinumZealot]

Mercedes was simply to draggy to threaten Lando in attempted overtakes.

Merc was faster than McL in the speed trap during quali and in the race stints on the straight (when both in free air).

I wasn't comparing the Merc to Macca speedtraps. Talking actual racing.

The W14 was simply too draggy to overtake the McLaren.

It was in following Norris – Hamilton on softs, Norris on hards – that the Mercedes driver was particular awed by seeing how good the McLaren MCL60 was at Silverstone’ high-speed sweeps.

“The most impressive part was at the end following [Norris],” he said.

“It was amazing to watch how good his car was at high speed. I know that we’ve got some work to do to catch up.

“I threw it up the inside into Turn 7 in the hope that ‘this is a moment I’m going to make it happen’ and pressed the overtake button. So we were both going down the road with overtake on, but he had less drag. So I had to back out. We’ve got some work to do to improve high-speed performance.”

[Cs98]

It was too slow in the race. Remember you have to look on the situation not what you see in practice. In the race you have to follow in dirty air and there's also a car on the line which you cannot occupy because you are racing him.
There was no way past for Lewis.
If we look at even the earlier laps of the race, cars were circulating and not being able to overtake. This technical regulation has produced close racing but it has turned some tracks to hard to overtake tracks, most notably this one. Look on Russel vs leclecr or Piastri.
And russel is a good racer. There are other examples too such as Perez.
Hamilton is experienced enough to know where he can overtake and keep the position. Lando could not be passed in a much faster car for many obvious reasons.

I'm not talking about practice. I'm talking about race telemetry showing the Merc was consistently around 2-3kph faster than the Macca on the straights (in free air). The narrative that the Merc is some drag monster is outdated.

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster. But Lewis had the preferred tyre for the restart which more than off-set that pace advantage.

I agree with what you said. But how can we explain the mclaren pulling ahead on the run up to Copse? Thats why lewis had to back out. He was losing ground. Perhaps started clipping?

The McLaren was on the racing line and thus in the tow of Verstappen, Lewis was off to the side and not getting a good tow. We also don't know how much energy they had at the time.

[Cs98]

Mercedes was simply to draggy to threaten Lando in attempted overtakes.

Merc was faster than McL in the speed trap during quali and in the race stints on the straight (when both in free air).

I wasn't comparing the Merc to Macca speedtraps. Talking actual racing.

The W14 was simply too draggy to overtake the McLaren.

It was in following Norris – Hamilton on softs, Norris on hards – that the Mercedes driver was particular awed by seeing how good the McLaren MCL60 was at Silverstone’ high-speed sweeps.

“The most impressive part was at the end following [Norris],” he said.

“It was amazing to watch how good his car was at high speed. I know that we’ve got some work to do to catch up.

“I threw it up the inside into Turn 7 in the hope that ‘this is a moment I’m going to make it happen’ and pressed the overtake button. So we were both going down the road with overtake on, but he had less drag. So I had to back out. We’ve got some work to do to improve high-speed performance.”

Which doesn't account for the fact that Lando was in the tow of Verstappen on the racing line on the run to copse. A far better indication of drag is watching both cars in free air over several laps in the race. I did that and observed that the Merc was 2-3 kph faster on almost every straight. The drag narrative is outdated.

[mzivtins]

The McLaren was on the racing line and thus in the tow of Verstappen, Lewis was off to the side and not getting a good tow. We also don't know how much energy they had at the time.

The affect of tow at that distance would be minimal, i would argue non-existent.

In the scenario where Norris out dragged Hamilton was nothing to do with a tow from ver. Hamilton had the rear wing open anyway.

Also being alongside a car like that also affects the downforce of bother cars, in GT racing the aerodynamics allow for a side-tow affect, where you can approach the car on its rear quarter and gain a tow affect due to the dirty air coming out from the side of the car.

I think you are trying to make excuses for an utterly slow mercedes. Hamilton had everything on his side and the McLaren simply outclassed that car in everyway that matters.

[mzivtins]

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster.

Gross understatement.

The deficit that the McLaren's pulled on GR who again was on a softer compound in stint 1 was huge.

• A McLaren on mediums is faster than a Merc of softs as we saw
  
  A McLaren on Hards is marginally faster than a Merc on softs as we saw

Those tyre differences make for an alarming pace differential, the Mercedes was not anywhere close to McLaren on race day at Silverstone.

Name me one other example of softs vs hard on SC restart where the hards have won out, just one example please.

Mercedes is a team full of all talk and no delivery, they should look at McLaren and operate without the fanfair and just knuckle down and get the job done. All of this upgrade talk with the press, letters to fans... it is pathetic.

Maybe we are seeing the death of Mercedes for the next coming years, and that is a good thing.

[Cs98]

If we're talking overall race pace then yes I'd agree the Macca was marginally faster.

Gross understatement.

The deficit that the McLaren's pulled on GR who again was on a softer compound in stint 1 was huge.

• A McLaren on mediums is faster than a Merc of softs as we saw
  
  A McLaren on Hards is marginally faster than a Merc on softs as we saw

Those tyre differences make for an alarming pace differential, the Mercedes was not anywhere close to McLaren on race day at Silverstone.

Name me one other example of softs vs hard on SC restart where the hards have won out, just one example please.

Mercedes is a team full of all talk and no delivery, they should look at McLaren and operate without the fanfair and just knuckle down and get the job done. All of this upgrade talk with the press, letters to fans... it is pathetic.

Maybe we are seeing the death of Mercedes for the next coming years, and that is a good thing.

George was stuck in traffic behind the slower Ferrari. The pace between the Mercs and the Maccas was much closer when Lewis and Russell were released in free air.