2022 budget cap violations

[Just_a_fan]

This is a fairly nuclear option, reserved for repeated infractions (and should not be done to award any other team with either championship retrospectively - much as nobody is credited with TdF wins that were removed from Mr Armstrong).

I'm a touch ambivalent about this. If someone cheats then you throw out their results and look at the results thereafter.

It's what they do in athletics, for example - those found to have been using illegal performance enhancing drugs are DSQ and the medals re-awarded accordingly. But I guess it's easier in a single event than in a season-long campaign.

Tricky subject.

[GCXX]

Current rumour from French media is that RB is being investigated over Marko's exclusion from the cost cap.

French media also suggest AMR are more seriously in trouble

Do you have a link?

[Cs98]

Current rumour from French media is that RB is being investigated over Marko's exclusion from the cost cap.

French media also suggest AMR are more seriously in trouble

Injecting Marko in a CC investigation rumour sounds a bit too good to be true.

On another note. Horner just stated RB were several million under the cap last season.

[chrisc90]

More in the thread if you click it.

[taperoo2k]

More in the thread if you click it.

The FIA aren't really going to say "Yep these teams have breached the cost cap" until they've completed
the process for legal reasons.

For a major breach the only conclusion can be exclusion from the Championship. Anything less would be a green light for the teams to cheat knowing they'd keep the titles. I think at this point the FIA will have to make an example of a team to shore up the cost cap. I hold no truck with cheating or handing out light punishments for cheating.

We can't go back to F1 being a spending free for all as it's simply not sustainable in the long term.

[Juzh]

Current rumour from French media is that RB is being investigated over Marko's exclusion from the cost cap.

French media also suggest AMR are more seriously in trouble

The whole Marko thing is interesting as one would think this would be brought up and clarified already in 2021. I also don't think he's employed by RB directly and probably never was. He had some arrangement with Dietrich Mateschitz and apparently he owns hotels if I remember correctly. All around not very clear situation.

[Wouter]

Current rumour from French media is that RB is being investigated over Marko's exclusion from the cost cap.

French media also suggest AMR are more seriously in trouble

.
The whole Marko thing is interesting as one would think this would be brought up and clarified already in 2021. I also don't think he's employed by RB directly and probably never was. He had some arrangement with Dietrich Mateschitz and apparently he owns hotels if I remember correctly. All around not very clear situation.

.
Helmut Marko was hired by Dietrich Mateschitz at the very beginning as a talent scout for all RB racing teams.
He was paid by him and that went through the Red Bull GmbH group.
He is referred to as a Red Bull motorsport advisor in several racing classes.
In 2021 that was approved by the FIA so that rumor is not correct.

[Juzh]

Current rumour from French media is that RB is being investigated over Marko's exclusion from the cost cap.

French media also suggest AMR are more seriously in trouble

.
The whole Marko thing is interesting as one would think this would be brought up and clarified already in 2021. I also don't think he's employed by RB directly and probably never was. He had some arrangement with Dietrich Mateschitz and apparently he owns hotels if I remember correctly. All around not very clear situation.

.
Helmut Marko was hired by Dietrich Mateschitz at the very beginning as a talent scout for all RB racing teams.
He was paid by him and that went through the Red Bull GmbH group.
He is referred to as a Red Bull motorsport advisor in several racing classes.
In 2021 that was approved by the FIA so that rumor is not correct.

I was referring to this article
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -red-bull/

,specifically:
Are you also rethinking your personal role? Is quitting without Mateschitz an option?

Marko: There will soon be business negotiations in Thailand. I'm independent. It depends on the overall structure. But we still have a lot to do. It's going well. We work very efficiently.


Proper meaning could be lost in translation.

[Wouter]

.
The whole Marko thing is interesting as one would think this would be brought up and clarified already in 2021. I also don't think he's employed by RB directly and probably never was. He had some arrangement with Dietrich Mateschitz and apparently he owns hotels if I remember correctly. All around not very clear situation.

.
Helmut Marko was hired by Dietrich Mateschitz at the very beginning as a talent scout for all RB racing teams.
He was paid by him and that went through the Red Bull GmbH group.
He is referred to as a Red Bull motorsport advisor in several racing classes.
In 2021 that was approved by the FIA so that rumor is not correct.

.
I was referring to this article
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -red-bull/

,specifically:
Are you also rethinking your personal role? Is quitting without Mateschitz an option?

Marko: There will soon be business negotiations in Thailand. I'm independent. It depends on the overall structure.
But we still have a lot to do. It's going well. We work very efficiently.


Proper meaning could be lost in translation.

.

Überdenken Sie auch ihre persönliche Funktion? Ist ohne Mateschitz Aufhören eine Option?

Marko: Es gibt demnächst Business-Verhandlungen in Thailand. Ich bin unabhängig. Da kommt es auf das Gesamtgefüge an.
Wir haben aber noch Einiges vor. Es läuft gerade gut. Wir arbeiten sehr effizient.

.
You translated it correctly @Juzh.
The fact that he says he is independent means that in fact he has nothing to do with RBR and SAT contractually.
He has a contract with Red Bull GmbH , 51% of which is owned by Thai owners.

[Just_a_fan]

The question is: if someone does something for the F1 team that is covered by the cost cap regulations, can they be excluded just because they have a contract with someone else?

Answer: In general, no they can't. If they could, the teams would use someone other than their own employees to design the car for them as it would be outside the cost cap.

So if Marko is going in to meetings and making decisions about the running of the team, he should probably be included in the cost cap for the bit that he does for the team. If, for example, 10% of his time is doing stuff in the team, then 10% of his cost should be attributed to the team's cost cap calculations. That's what the regulations require.

Maybe that is what is being looked at. Or maybe it's all just click-bait rumour.

[codetower]

The whole budget cap is silly in my opinion. The bigger budget teams will always have an advantage. I imagine you can always move money around "legally".

How would they handle something along the lines of me working for Aerospace Inc, getting paid 20 million euro a year. The company I work for specializes in aero setups for various divisions. Airlines, Autos, etc. They have a bunch of wind tunnels, tracks everything. Now a team hires me as a consultant and pays me 1 mil. What goes into the teams budget? 1 mil? I can bring my 20 million worth of knowledge, plus whatever I've learned from all the money Aerospace Inc's invests. How can they control that?

[AR3-GP]

At the end of the day, the teams are now profitable ventures. They will never choose to go back to unlimited spending.

Imo, the complaints from teams about the budget limiting them is just a stalking horse. They are still making more money than ever before, for simply existing.

[Big Tea]

The whole budget cap is silly in my opinion. The bigger budget teams will always have an advantage. I imagine you can always move money around "legally".

How would they handle something along the lines of me working for Aerospace Inc, getting paid 20 million euro a year. The company I work for specializes in aero setups for various divisions. Airlines, Autos, etc. They have a bunch of wind tunnels, tracks everything. Now a team hires me as a consultant and pays me 1 mil. What goes into the teams budget? 1 mil? I can bring my 20 million worth of knowledge, plus whatever I've learned from all the money Aerospace Inc's invests. How can they control that?

A 'person' subcontracted often has a retinue with them that does the donkey work and research, presenting it as a snippet of information to the 'expert'. To do this of course there would have to be a back door way to make it worth their while but not appear on the books as the same payment. This could be a consultancy to another part of the same company but billed as a different sector or even as a delayed bonus way down the road.

[RaceFan1]

I'm all for basing the punishments on what the team principals and drivers stated the penalties should have been last year.

[codetower]

I'm all for basing the punishments on what the team principals and drivers stated the penalties should have been last year.

Here's where the FIA messed up, IMO. You can't now go and give a harsher punishment than RB received last year. Lets say Mercedes or McLaren breach. You can't go and dock points, or take a way podiums, or take away 30% of tunnel time. And you can't fine them 20M Euro. This will make last year's punishment even more controversial. They set the bar with the punishments last year. Now repeat offenders, yes, then they should go more harsh.