2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

[-wkst-]

Tyres are not the problem (Michael Schmidt in the AMuS video blog also don't think that tyres play a big role). Silverstone is the perfect example: as long as the track was damp/wet, ALO was on pace and you can only be competitive in such conditions when you get heat into the tyres). They fell back when it was dry - so the damp conditions masked a problem/problems of the car - most likely related to the radius of corners.

[KimiRai]

Silverstone is the perfect example: as long as the track was damp/wet, ALO was on pace and you can only be competitive in such conditions when you get heat into the tyres). They fell back when it was dry

That's just Fernando. Silverstone 2017 Q1 first with a McHonda on similar conditions.

[peewon]

Just from my observation, i could be way off, but since the introduction of the new tire, the AMR has no front end. The braking performance, turn in seem to be gone. It feels like they have compromised rear end setup to give it turn in and given up that excellent rear traction they had at the start of the year. And due to this they've lost their ability to manage tire temps.

Yeah the car has been really snappy since the upgrades. Alonso hit the wall in Canada, which is rare for him and was almost spinning out in free practice in Hungary.

[-wkst-]

Silverstone is the perfect example: as long as the track was damp/wet, ALO was on pace and you can only be competitive in such conditions when you get heat into the tyres). They fell back when it was dry

That's just Fernando. Silverstone 2017 Q1 first with a McHonda on similar conditions.

That's absoluty not comparable, in 2017 he gambled (already having a grid penalty) for dry tyres (OCO too - successfully). Moreover VAN was quite competitive with the inters too...

Naturally, the driver is very important in damp/wet conditions, but you need DF/tyre temp too, otherwise you are lost. I guess with the lower speeds in the these conditions, they can hide the real problems.

[KimiRai]

That's absoluty not comparable, in 2017 he gambled (already having a grid penalty) for dry tyres (OCO too - successfully). Moreover VAN was quite competitive with the inters too...

Disagree. The second driver who gambled with softs was Ocon, and with a clearly better car than McHonda he was 2.1s slower than Fernando with only a small track improvement disadvantage. Alonso has traditionally done well in that crossover area due to his adaptability and I'm not the only person who says this.

Naturally, the driver is very important in damp/wet conditions, but you need DF/tyre temp too, otherwise you are lost.

Yeah, the downforce of the Aston who ran low DF wings that weekend as a compromise while lacking in the corners...

[diffuser]

Think we learned back in Spain that the car is front limited and that hasn't changed. It's gotten a little better, maybe. I see Alonso constantly trying to lead with the rear in the corners, he just stays off the throttle till the car gets slow enough and straightened out and then guns it. He's not trying to keep a tight line. Was switching between him and Gasly @silverstone and you could really see how the Alpine had a better front end.

[NAPI10]

It will be a tricky race weekend for AM. Williams will be a handful plus upgraded Alpine, add to that tricky weather conditions. Reaching Q3 in dry conditions will be difficult.
If the team decides to gamble on 'Wet/Damp' conditions to set up the car accordingly will be hammered in dry race conditions.
It will be a plus if they manage to score any point otherwise it's time to eat a humble pie.

[jofs89]

I've heard that the new upgrades have caused some issues with the rear. Not sure if the sources are reliable though.
What I don't understand is that the Canada upgrade brought them pretty close to Red Bull and did seem like a step forward. Not much has been added to the car since and they've gone backwards massively since then compared to Red Bull. I understand some of deficit will be track specific but why are the SO far off in Hungary a few races later, a track that should suit them. It just doesn't seem to stack up.

[diffuser]

I've heard that the new upgrades have caused some issues with the rear. Not sure if the sources are reliable though.
What I don't understand is that the Canada upgrade brought them pretty close to Red Bull and did seem like a step forward. Not much has been added to the car since and they've gone backwards massively since then compared to Red Bull. I understand some of deficit will be track specific but why are the SO far off in Hungary a few races later, a track that should suit them. It just doesn't seem to stack up.

AMR has said they worked. Their only problem is that they've had fewer updates than everyone else. Now if that is because of the move, lacking man power, just something they need to improve upon, idk. Hopefully it also means, cause of the CAP, that they have more upgrades than the other teams to come.

I don't buy this that the back seems looser since the upgrade, the incidents have come during gusty, or really green sessions.

[peewon]

I've heard that the new upgrades have caused some issues with the rear. Not sure if the sources are reliable though.
What I don't understand is that the Canada upgrade brought them pretty close to Red Bull and did seem like a step forward. Not much has been added to the car since and they've gone backwards massively since then compared to Red Bull. I understand some of deficit will be track specific but why are the SO far off in Hungary a few races later, a track that should suit them. It just doesn't seem to stack up.

Canada has very few corners which are typical of the rest of the calendar. In many respects, its an outlier circuit which suits AM more than any other team. Verstappen had a bird stuck in his car for virtually the whole race. AM still didn't really challenge them.

Their "upgrades" seem to have lost some downforce and reduced some drag. Its a lateral move in hopes that it makes them more competitive on wider range of tracks. Its not really a step up in performance. And I think they miscalculated. Their tyre wear is now worse than Mercedes and have a loose rear end.

[jofs89]

So you're saying that within 3 races they've been out developed by every team and the gap from Red Bull has grown from ~9 seconds post race to well over 1 minute? So Red Bull has out developed them massively without bringing any significant upgrades? The decline is very strange to me.

[jofs89]

p.s. I get Canada was an outlier track but they'd been pretty consistent up until that point on a number of different tracks, hence 6 podiums in 10 races and nearly a podium in Baku. Something seems to have seriously wrong to fall back so quickly in such a short time. That is my point. I don't recall even seeing such a significant decline in the matter of a few races.

[diffuser]

So you're saying that within 3 races they've been out developed by every team and the gap from Red Bull has grown from ~9 seconds post race to well over 1 minute? So Red Bull has out developed them massively without bringing any significant upgrades? The decline is very strange to me.

It all started with a raft of upgrades teams started to bring starting with the large one from Merc and followed by a huge one from McLaren.

[diffuser]

Mot sure if you noticed...it was in the F1 moving people section....RedBull Principal Aerodynamicist "Thijs van Rees" is now at the Aston Martin F1 Team. Previously with Mercedes.

[alonsofan]

I've heard that the new upgrades have caused some issues with the rear. Not sure if the sources are reliable though.
What I don't understand is that the Canada upgrade brought them pretty close to Red Bull and did seem like a step forward. Not much has been added to the car since and they've gone backwards massively since then compared to Red Bull. I understand some of deficit will be track specific but why are the SO far off in Hungary a few races later, a track that should suit them. It just doesn't seem to stack up.

Canada has very few corners which are typical of the rest of the calendar. In many respects, its an outlier circuit which suits AM more than any other team. Verstappen had a bird stuck in his car for virtually the whole race. AM still didn't really challenge them.

We were stuck behind Hammie.